Trouble with a White Ash

[Stonehenge]

Last year we planted a 5-6" Autumn Purple White Ash, and a few days ago the client told us the tree had dropped all of it's leaves.

I went out there today and took a few pics, and am hoping someone can help be diagnose the problem.

The cambium (sp?) in all the branches is still green, and it appears the tree had fully leafed out in spring. All the petioles are also intact, still on the tree. It almost looks like someone came by and just stripped the leaflets from the tree.

Also, this must have happened pretty recently, as it looks like all of the leaflets are strewn around the ground, and have not yet been mulched by a lawnmower.

Here's a shot of the tree:

[Stonehenge]

The next shot is of a few leaflets I picked up from the ground - they all look a little pale. This is how most of the leaves looked around the ground. There were some that were curled and brown, but a vast majority looked like this pic:

[Stonehenge]

This is the underside of the leaves:

[Stonehenge]

I looked the tree over and didn't find any evidence of Emerald Ash Borer.

Also, there are many other Ash trees in the sub that don't appear to have been affected like this. However, they are all established trees. I did notice similar traits in more recently planted trees in the neighborhood, but non of them were defoliated like this.

Lastly, we have had a ton of rain in the last two months. Lots and lots. The soil felt moist, but it was raining today, too, so I don't know if that was any indicator.

The tree looks a little crooked compared to when we planted it, and the stakes were all pretty loose.

The tree has no mulch ring around it, but upon inspecting it for line trimmer damage, there was none.

Anyone have any ideas for me as to how to go about saving this tree, if it is in fact saveable?

[VoodooChile]

Stone, I checked in Dirr and the list of pests and diseases that afflict White ash is impressive, but none really match what you describe. Dirr says that White ash is prone to stress, and that accounts for the laundry list of problems.

As for this not-expert, it's sounds like root rot to me, something an established tree would be much better able to resist. No matter what, I'm guessing the tree in question is toast. :(

Mid-season defoliation on a newly planted tree is a death-sentence. Established trees, like Crabs, can withstand losing their foliage mid-season, and still have enough energy in their roots to break bud the following Spring, but not something that isn't root established.

Rip it out and look at the roots; that's where your answer lies.

[agla]

Wet feet. I had a green ash do the exact same thing a few years back. It turned out that the ground was saturated just a little below the surface from a cracked irrigation main. I think the "puddle in the background might support this thought.

I had the irrigation line repaired. The tree leafed out later in the season with no problem other than that the buds popped up in odd places because the normal ones had already done their thing.

[Stonehenge]

Ok, thanks for the replies. Now I have to decide if this is something I'll cover under warranty. Client was a pain in the neck, and we have a 'natural disasters' clause in our plant guarantee. Ordinarily we would just replace it and be done with it, but this client gives me pause to not be so generous.

[dan deutekom]

I agree with agla that it is wet feet. Almost every time I have seen a tree defoliate green leaves like this it has involved to much water.

[VoodooChile]

For Stone's sake I'll hope agla and dan are right and I'm wrong!

I am wondering when (and if) this tree will leaf out again, this summer or next spring, and how far back will this early defoliation set it? Your opinions, guys?

[diginahole]

I'd guess wet feet too. I'd replace it and find a spot in your own yard to stick it. It might come back. I have always believed it isn't a gonner until the dead leaves stay on the tree.

Good client or bad, remember, the client isn't the only one who knows who stuck that 'dead' tree there. A quick replacement will almost certainly lead to a great referal or ??? You may never know what leaving a bad taste in the mouth will bring.

[dan deutekom]

A lot of times I have found trees like this are a goner and sometimes not. Usually dropping green leaves is a sign of an enviromental condition that happens rather suddenly like flooding, extreme heat or cold or a toxic gas or a low dose of herbicide (fumes, not mist). If the roots havn't rotted and it was a short term wet condition their is a good chance of survival and you should see leaves sprouting withing a couple of weeks if the conditions causing the problem have been dealt with.

[Paul]

Jeff, I would have someone stop by and open a planting ring around the tree. For that size tree it would be 8' -10' diameter. I would have them cultivate out side the root ball 6"-10" deep. This should allow the surrounding soil to dry out and allow some air to the root system.

Yes trees have been known to come back from this but what really worries me would be the weakened state it would go into winter. Following your low snow fall and no snow cover your tree would be subject to an even harder freeze conditions. If it does come back I would mulch it later in the year, wider than the 8' to 10' tree ring. This should help protect the tree along with a pre winter watering in late November/ early December.

[PSUscaper]

Was the tree that crooked when planted????

The bend too me could be a sign of a few other problems.....

1. High winds...........could the tree be in one of those 'micro wind tunnel' areas that I've seen on properties, which could lead to that lean and to stress.

2. Initial growth (probably not a concern)...............tree may have been grown on a hill at the nursery (the reason for the angled growth) and now that it is being forced to grow on level ground, it is struggling to adapt..

3. A personal experience........when a tree is crooked like that, you have a desire to straighten it out. Because of the sharp bend, you are unable to straighten it out by setting the root ball on a slight angle because one side of it ends up sticking way out of the ground..........so, to straighten it, you tend to push a 'little' bit on it or force it into position by using tree stakes.

When certain employees or people (not myself or any of my employees of course!) start pushing on a crooked tree, they sometime push a 'little' bit too hard and a distinct snapping sound is heard......the sound of the roots being ripped apart inside the root ball.

Of course, all my employees would notify me if they did something like this, as I'm sure yours would............................................. ..........................................

[PSUscaper]

Also,

my nifty scouting for disease book mentions Anthracnose as a possible cause..........and notes moist and cool weather as a time for spread.

Also mentions light brown to tan blotches on the leaves, and pre-mature dropping.

maybe, maybe not...

[Stonehenge]

I was looking through my Ortho Problem Solver and saw the same thing Penn. The pic seemed to show a different look to the leaves than what I saw, and most of the leaves that dropped were still totally green, though pale, so I'm thinking it's the wet.

And call me greedy or insensitive, but I met the client halfway on the tree issue. We'll do some rototilling to try to aerate the soil, on us, but if it doesn't work and the tree dies, we'll pay for the tree, they'll pay for our labor. Our contract protects us from any liability for a case like this, but I'm trying to be a little bit nice (which seems to be in short supply for me lately :rrr: ).

[jwholden]

Jeff,

Did they call you after your warrantee expired?

What is the problem with your replacing that tree?

I'm curious.

[Stonehenge]

I guess I've reached a point where I'm just tired of being the nice guy, giving away stuff beyond our warranties. This situation would fall outside the warranty, just like a lightning strike or a tornado - it didn't rain for three days in May, and June was not much different.

This tree is a very large one for us, and was the only thing we planted there. Plus as I mentioned these people were a real pain in the behind last year. We missed the window of good lawn seeding times last year with them because they couldn't make up their mind on retaining wall block - they would want one block, then another, then settled on a third, but it was a special order, so they had to go back and look at more block, yadda yadda, that decision took a month. Then, the deck builders (called "Just Decks" for a reason) would not spread weed barrier fabric and stone beneath the deck - they left that for the homeowner to handle, which he asked us to do. We obliged, but then the deck builder came in with no warning, and stone had to be shoveled up underneath the deck by hand, instead of simply dumping it with a skid steer. The added charge for this was of course a big ordeal. And we had to have a few discussions about what types of seed were blended (she asked "What color will my lawn be?"). And of course, we seeded their lawn at about 150
% the suggested seed rate, and set up a temporary irrigation system for them, with a dozen sprinklers to cover their 1/3 acre lot, but they didn't follow watering instructions and the seed didn't come in very well, prompting lots of emails and phonecalls about why their lawn wasn't coming in. Oh, and because they took so long to choose the block, missing the good lawn seeding window, we lost a couple sprinkler heads because they burst when we got a freeze in October. I had 26 emails from them over a two month period, besides the phonecalls). I'm sure there are other things that I'm repressing that further exacerbated the problem.

So, I'm less than enthusiastic about bending over too far backwards for these two. They don't live in a fancy neighborhood, they're young, seem to have few friends, so the odds of recouping any generosity (though is it really generosity if I'm calculating odds of ROI?) is pretty slim.

To bring some perspective, another client of ours had a tree die two years after it was planted, and died for a similar reason. They are good people and have been good clients for us. We are happily replacing their tree, though it falls well outside our parameters for replacement. I'm capable of being nice, I just can't bring myself to eat this one.

[jwholden]

Jeff,

I haven't had a client that bad in a couple years. Unfortunately I'm due. God bless you for putting up with that!

[VoodooChile]

Pennscapes and Stone,
What are these "nifty" disease scouting books you are mentioning? I can never pass on an excuse to own another reference!

[Stonehenge]

The one I'm refeerring to is just called the Ortho Problem Solver, but there are two versions: One for the homeowner, and one for people with a greater interest (industry, grower, etc). The homeowner version is about 400 pages, the pro version is just over 1,000 and has a hard cover. Both have great photos to illustrate insects, plant symptoms, etc. The 1,000+ page edition was $200, and I don't recall how much the smaller one was.

[PSUscaper]

Mine is a small pocket sized book issued by the Penn State college of Agriculture.....cost was $7. It is based on 'key plants', which means it does not cover each species, but a select few that demonstrate common disease among most. I've found it to be one of the best for its simplicity, as IPM is not a field I want to get that deeply involved in.

[VoodooChile]

Penn, What's the title?

[Stonehenge]

I have some good news - we took Paul's advice and rototilled around the tree, about a 5' radius. I also told the homeowner to cover the area with a tarp when it was going to rain, remove it after the rains are over.

I stopped out yesterday and saw that the tree is beginning to leaf out again.

I'm a very happy boy. Thanks for all the help! Saved me some headaches and having to buy another 5-6" caliper tree. :D

[Dale Wiley]

I'd go with wet feet also. Anthractnose is usually an early spring disease we can spray for here. Although with the humidity's you could still get it during the summer.

I don't think rototilling the surface area even down to 10 inches or so is going to help. I think the excess water is down deeper. Was the tree potholed in with native soils or mulched ??

I have seen these trees leaf out again in the same season and seasons after if the profile problems are corrected. But the client expects a fully leafed tree. I would just replace it and keep the client satisfied, and add the tree to my yard.

[jwholden]

Jeff,

Don't be afraid to put a few 2' stakes around the tree at a 45 degree angle to tie your wires to. You can put a turnbuckle on each wire to adjust the tension (I don't).

A couple pieces of marking tape on each wire where it will be seen assures no problems with people in the yard and the lawn guy.

Something to consider...

[Stonehenge]

JW, do you consider short stakes to be better than the larger ones we already have in there? If so, I'd like to hear your thoughts on the matter.

[jwholden]

A short stake will do the same job as the large ones. However, a shorter stake is less obtrusive.

[Stonehenge]

Gotcha. :)

[jwholden]

Ummm... a short stake would be easier to trip over in the middle of a lawn as well. :bag:

[Stonehenge]

With this client, I'd be willing to paint the stakes and the guying wire dark green to help that happen. :devil: