Checking prices

[Paul]

Here's a job that is going out tomorrow........ All maintance to be done till August 2004. What do you think?

UNIT
QTY SIZE DESCRIPTION PRICE TOTAL

6400 sq ft Pavers 8 cm $10.00 $64,000.00
12 ea Steps 18"x 36" $200.00 $2,400.00
6 acres Grade, Fertilize, Seed Sunny Mix A $5,335.00 $32,010.00
18 acres Grade, Fertilize, Seed Athletic Prem. Mix $5,335.00 $96,030.00
44,000 sq ft Grade, Sod $0.65 $28,600.00
3 2.5" Black Maple $410.00 $1,230.00
3 3" Deborah Norway Maple $500.00 $1,500.00
17 2.5" Northwoods Red Maple $390.00 $6,630.00
7 3" Sugar Maple $520.00 $3,640.00
20 2.5" Autumn Blaze Freeman Maple $390.00 $7,800.00
29 2.5" Hackberry $370.00 $10,730.00
3 7' Katsura Tree $370.00 $1,110.00
13 2.5" Autumn Purple White Ash $410.00 $5,330.00
10 2.5" Rosehill White Ash $410.00 $4,100.00
7 2.5" Green Ash $390.00 $2,730.00
15 3" Marshall Green Ash $510.00 $7,650.00
10 3" Ginkgo $550.00 $5,500.00
20 2.5" Thornless Common Honeylocust $370.00 $7,400.00
19 2.5" Kentucky Coffeetree $440.00 $8,360.00
9 3.5" Aristocrat Callery Pear $520.00 $4,680.00
9 2" Swamp White Oak $320.00 $2,880.00
4 1.75" Shingle Oak $280.00 $1,120.00
8 2" Bur Oak $320.00 $2,560.00
3 3" Pin Oak $390.00 $1,170.00
7 3.5" Common Baldcypress $440.00 $3,080.00
4 2.5" Redmond American Linden $390.00 $1,560.00
13 3" Greenspire Little Leaf Linden $400.00 $5,200.00
5 6' White Fir $240.00 $1,200.00
12 6' Colorado Green Spruce $260.00 $3,120.00
4 7' Fat Albert Spruce (Picea Pungens) $250.00 $1,000.00
9 6' Colorado Blue Spruce $280.00 $2,520.00
3 6' Swiss Stone Pine $400.00 $1,200.00
11 6' Limber Pine $320.00 $3,520.00
3 5' Austrian Pine $300.00 $900.00
6 6' Eastern White Pine $280.00 $1,680.00
6 5' Canadian Hemlock $240.00 $1,440.00
15 8' European Alder $350.00 $5,250.00
4 7' Serviceberry $360.00 $1,440.00
23 8' River Birch $350.00 $8,050.00
3 2.5" American Hornbeam $420.00 $1,260.00
7 4' Sandra Hamamelis $240.00 $1,680.00
6 7' Prairifire Crabapple $240.00 $1,440.00
7 7' Red Jewel Crabapple $240.00 $1,680.00
3 5' Sargent Crabapple $220.00 $660.00
52 24" Brilliant Red Chokeberry $30.00 $1,560.00
29 24" Ruby Spice Summersweet Clethra $30.00 $870.00
9 5 gal Cranberry Cotoneaster $40.00 $360.00
5 48" Chicago Fire Burning Bush $65.00 $325.00
17 30" Dwarf Burning Bush $45.00 $765.00
6 36" Sunrise Forsythia $30.00 $180.00
36 30" Tardiva Panicle Hydrangea $45.00 $1,620.00
13 5 gal Gro-Low Sumac $40.00 $520.00
55 36" Staghorn Sumac $40.00 $2,200.00
21 3 gal Belle Poitevine Rugosa Rose $35.00 $735.00
29 3 gal Champlain Shrub Rose $35.00 $1,015.00
27 30" Grefshelm Spirea $35.00 $945.00
11 24" Little Princess Spirea $30.00 $330.00
67 24" Goldflame Spirea $30.00 $2,010.00
8 24" Miss Kim Lilac $45.00 $360.00
25 30" Hahs Viburnum $45.00 $1,125.00
9 30" Mohawk Viburnum $40.00 $360.00
13 5 gal Green Sargent Juniper $40.00 $520.00
94 5 gal Kallay's Compact Pfitzer Juniper $40.00 $3,760.00
24 5 gal Sea Green Juniper $40.00 $960.00
14 5 gal Blue Chip Juniper $40.00 $560.00
12 5 gal Broadmoor Juniper $40.00 $480.00
1 30" Dwarf Mugho Pine $90.00 $90.00
16 24" Dense Anglojapanese Yew $75.00 $1,200.00
130 1 gal Lady's Mantle $10.00 $1,300.00
41 1 gal Little Blue Stem $10.00 $410.00
115 1 gal September Charm Anemone $10.00 $1,150.00
110 1 gal Pumila Chinese Astilbe $10.00 $1,100.00
38 1 gal Karl Foerster's Feather Reed Grass $10.00 $380.00
6 1 gal Tufted Hair Grass $10.00 $60.00
203 1 gal Purple Coneflower $10.00 $2,030.00
178 1 gal White Coneflower $10.00 $1,780.00
1400 3" pots Purpleleaf Wintercreeper $2.00 $2,800.00
2300 3" pots English Ivy $2.00 $4,600.00
75 1 gal Hyperion Daylily $10.00 $750.00
70 1 gal Stella D'Oro Daylily $10.00 $700.00
40 1 gal Kobold Gayfeather $10.00 $400.00
174 1 gal Floristan Violet Gayfeather $10.00 $1,740.00
16 1 gal Autumn Light Grass $10.00 $160.00
29 1 gal Nippon Silver Grass $10.00 $290.00
32 1 gal Flame Grass $10.00 $320.00
244 1 gal Blue Wonder Catmint $10.00 $2,440.00
48 1 gal Red Switch Grass $10.00 $480.00
84 1 gal Heavy Meatal Switch Grass $10.00 $840.00
40 1 gal Brilliant Oriental Poppy $10.00 $400.00
19 1 gal Fountain Grass $10.00 $190.00
54 1 gal Russian Sage $10.00 $540.00
30 1 gal Longin Russian Sage $10.00 $300.00
40 1 gal Rosalinde Phlox $10.00 $400.00
115 1 gal Rosea Obedient Plant $10.00 $1,150.00
180 1 gal Black-eyed Susan $10.00 $1,800.00
104 1 gal Autumn Joy Sedum $10.00 $1,040.00
16 1 gal Sioux Blue Indian Grass $10.00 $160.00
234 ea Granite Boulders 2' x3' $200.00 $46,800.00
50 cu yd Pea Gravel w/nonwoven filter fabric $62.00 $3,100.00
925 2.5" pots Common Mountain Mint $2.00 $1,850.00
925 2.5" pots Torey's Rush $2.00 $1,850.00
925 1 gal Spider Wort $10.00 $9,250.00
890 2.5" pots Wolly Sedge $2.00 $1,780.00
890 2.5" pots Blue Flag Iris $2.00 $1,780.00
1800 2.5" pots Common Sneeze Weed $2.00 $3,600.00
890 2.5" pots Common Rush $2.00 $1,780.00
840 2.5" pots Prairie Dropseed $2.00 $1,680.00
350 1 gal Purple Coneflower $10.00 $3,500.00
200 1 gal James Marsh Daylily $10.00 $2,000.00
612 1 gal Black-eyed Susan $10.00 $6,120.00
750 1 gal East Friesland Salvia $10.00 $7,500.00
350 1 gal Autumn Joy Sedum $10.00 $3,500.00
2 3" Greenspire Little Leaf Linden $400.00 $800.00
2 2.5" American Hornbeam $420.00 $840.00
2 5' Fringetree $300.00 $600.00
2 6' Pagoda Dogwood $260.00 $520.00
6 3' Vernal Witchhazel $130.00 $780.00
2 5' Jane Magnolia $150.00 $300.00
14 30" Dwarf Burning Bush $45.00 $630.00
50 5 gal Annabelle Smooth Hydrangea $40.00 $2,000.00
20 30" Grefshelm Spirea $35.00 $700.00
18 5 gal Wine and Roses Weigela $35.00 $630.00
22 18" Hughes Juniper $30.00 $660.00
18 5 gal Kallay's Compact Pfitzer Juniper $40.00 $720.00
6 30" Compact Mugho Pine $90.00 $540.00
6 24" Dense Anglojapanese Yew $75.00 $450.00
400 6" pots Gaiety Bugleweed $6.00 $2,400.00
110 1 gal Lady's Mantle $10.00 $1,100.00
36 1 gal Karl Foerster's Feather Reed Grass $10.00 $360.00
90 1 gal Kims Kneehigh Coneflower $10.00 $900.00
90 1gal White Coneflower $10.00 $900.00
1200 1 qt Creeping Lily-turf $5.00 $6,000.00
28 1 gal Nippon Silver Grass $10.00 $280.00
6 1 gal Fountain Grass $10.00 $60.00
60 1 gal Black-eyed Susan $10.00 $600.00
175 cu yd Compost 4" deep, rototill $30.00 $5,250.00
450 cu yd Mulch 3" deep $35.00 $15,750.00
1 Install Pea Gravel w/steel edging $1,660.00 $1,660.00
(140 lf edging, 6 cy gravel) $-
1 River Rock Maintenance strip $11,633.00 $11,633.00
(30" wide x 3" thick, 578 lf steel edging, $-
14 cy stone)


$562,753.00

[Stonehenge]

ROFLMAO - I think my beard grew in the time it took me to scroll through all that.... :)

Working on a couple designs myself, I'll give this a whirl later this evening. :$$:

[Paul]

Where the prices out of line??

[Bladewizard]

Make sure to tack a few bucks on there for your diamond blades Paul........lol........No really......Nice numbers....Where do I sign?

[Nebraska]

Quite the property! You'll have to post pictures of this when your done!

[diginahole]

My first thought is that I would have to do the maintenance 'til Aug 2004 just to give me enough time to get them buggers in the ground :woot:

Now I don't know much about pricing maintenance or the cost of nursery stock when buying in your neighbourhood in volumes such as this, but the prices seem a little thin to include 1 years care on a 25 acre site. If the maintenance is billed separate the pricing at first glance seems cool from a canuck point of view.

6' Colorado Blue Spruce $280.00
8' River Birch $350.00

This sent up a small flag here as well. The birch would surely be cheaper than the blue spruce in my market even with the size difference.

[Stonehenge]

Are those Birch multistem? Here there's pretty much no market for single stem Birch.

The thing I find amazing is the variety of spec'd plant material...Truly astonishing. I'm having trouble imagining any people attending or working at the school being able to discern one Maple from another. Sure, they'll probably pick out the Ginkgo and a few other uncommon plants...

Is this a private school? I'm even surprised at the Hydrangeas, Astilbe, Anemone. I don't recall any schools here, or when I grew up, having anything more than a few Yews and a few Junipers in front, trees around the property. I mean Geeeez, there are 7 different varieties of grass!

I'm interested in knowing what maintenance would be done on the trees until 8/04 - or was that just for the seeding? (BTW, at 2#/1000sqft, I bet they'll make their $$ back in maintenance).

As I'm looking at this I'm also thinking - 'I wouldn't want to be the one to have to find all this.' Do they give you botanical names? I've never heard of 'Sneeze Weed', and can imagine the faces of my suppliers when I ask for it. :huh:

There are portions of this bid that I can't comprehend, like how to bid the lawn maintenance and other grounds maintenance for 12 months (or whatever the timeframe will be). Also, I have no idea what kinds of volume discounts I might get when ordering this much in plants, so my bid might be off quite a bit just due to that. The sod, priced at almost $6/yd sounds a bit high to me, as do the pavers a bit (did you get it spec'd to all 8cm?).

In general though, most everything seems to be pretty much in line with what I'd bid, except for maybe a few of the shrubs (just a few bucks high, and some of the 3" pots - a little low).

That really sounds like an amazing project and I hope you land it. :woot:

[Paul]

Ok this is one thing we have learned


"6' Colorado Blue Spruce $280.00
8' River Birch $350.00
This sent up a small flag here as well. The birch would surely be cheaper than the blue spruce in my market even with the size difference."

We price the brich higher because of losses do to planting at the wrong time of year, I should have told you they wanted the plants installed by August of 2003.......... The birch should be a spring installed plant, our records show that late summer and very early fall brich have a 35% loss rate. The $6 per yd for sod is for maintance along with seeding, here we can install seed for $4110 per acre. I'll know tommorow on the bid but there are some landscape companies that will bid this lower because of lack of work or they made mistakes in the bidding.

[diginahole]

Sounds like you have a firm grasp of your numbers, good luck.

[Stonehenge]

Ok, what about my little project?

Lawn seeding
Spread and grade 3 - 18 yard truckloads of pulverized topsoil
Machine and hand grade yard, removing debris 2" and larger
Fert and seed (seed at 5#/1,000 sqft)
Cover lawn area with hydromulch (80% recycled paper, 20% wood fiber) at a rate of 2,000 lbs per acre. - APPROX 3/4 ACRE.

Stone Retention Using Weathered Edge Limestone, construct informal retention structures near Northwest and Southwest
corners of residence, to have an informal, 'retained berm' look, with plantings mixed with sections of retainer.
Will use approx 12 ton of stone.

Paver Patio
Approx. 570 sqft paver patio using Unilock Olde Greenwich Cobble, Nevada color. Includes constructing 5
steps of retaining wall block, with pavers as treads.

Plantings and Planting Beds
Approx. 39 yards hardwood mulch
Approx. 580' of 'shovel edge' as bed edge to achieve more natural look vs black PVC edging.
Transplant 2 existing conifers to back; replant one of that bed's trees (so you fols know, these are being subbed out to a tree spade outfit - they're about 12-14' tall)
Cedar Arbor to screen hot tub from view - all cedar construction, 'L' shaped, 8' on one side, 3' on the other, 6-7' tall.
8 - Dwf Burning Bush 15-18"
6 - Antioch Hosta, 1 gal
8 flats - Bellflower
10 Gro-Low Sumac, 3 gal
5 - Trumpetvine, 1 gal
1 Peking Cotoneaster, 15-18"
9 - Crimson Pygmy Barberry, 15-18"
10 - Maiden Grass, 1 gal
1 - Thornless Hawthorn, 2" caliper
1 - Autumn Purple White Ash, 2" caliper
4 - Limemound Spirea, 12-15"
8 - Fountain Grass, 1 gal
3 flats - Dragon's Blood Sedum
7 - Russian Sage, 1 gal
11 - Zagreb Coreopsis, 1 gal
3 - Procumben Juniper, 3 gal
35 - Black-Eyed Susan, 1 gal
6 - Sea Green Juniper, 15-18"
1 - Sargent's Crab, 2" caliper
2 flats Ajuga Reptans
1 - Pompon Juniper, 15-18"
6 French Hybrid Lilac, 18-24"

[diginahole]

$23,500

[Stonehenge]

Pretty darn good - without tax, I'm at $24,500. :)

[diginahole]

Well that's pretty close considering I just scrached out some numbers on the back of an old envelope in about 3 minutes.

[PSUscaper]

Wow Paul!!!

You are going to be driving a new BMW by the end of that one, in fact, you might be going to Germany to see it made!!

I really don't understand your plant pricing....

To me, for a project this large, I would think you prices are quite high (maybe extremely high for all matter)for the plant material..

Some of my wholesale pricing:

gold flame spirea - 18-24" my wholesale $8.50
your price installed - $30.00

juniper - 5 gal my wholesale (18-24") - 10.75
your price installed - $40.00

river birch - 8' my wholesale price $50.00
(a 8 ' birch is like a 1" cal tree??? twigs!)
your price installed - $350..WOW

perennials - 1 gal no more than $3.00 ea
your price installed - $10.00
(I'd imagine with the quatities, 1 gal perennials could be had for less than 3 ea though, I bet you could strike a deal up for about $2 ea......)

sod my price installed .22 ft
44,000 sq ft = 9680 + grading
(maybe 1 day with a dozer, 2 days power rake for grading???)


Additionally, I believe you are charging additionally for the mulching and topsoil used for planting. So, you are charging the above plant installation as price for only cost and installation, nothing else.

Most guys I know are charging FAR, FAR less for installation, and that price also includes the mulch and topsoil

I can't say there is nothing wrong with the price though.......especially if you get it. I just think that others would come in way lower on the planting prices......but I don't know the market. I just know that at the prices you have, I would be thinking vacation home on a small Island, (including the island)

All I know is I would have trouble holding myself back from jumping up for joy and running frantically around the room while the client signed the contract.

Maybe I'm missing the point though......I honestly, don't understand pricing anymore..........a job this big I can't see getting those numbers for......I have trouble getting numbers like those for 'eenie weenie' jobs in high end areas...........

Also, I truly don't understand what it means to be a huge company like yours.........I can only imagine your overhead. Maybe you have to be this high on pricing to do well......I know that in order to handle a big job like this in a timely manner takes a lot of work.........having the 'speed' to handle work like this is quite costly.


Paul, if you get this job, can I come work for you and help spend some of that money??????

steve

[PSUscaper]

WOW.......

I missed something...

$11,633 for 14 cu. yds of River Stone and 578 ft of edging!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HOLY MACKERAL!!!!!!!!

If my calculations are right, that would be about $1500 in materials.......................maybe $2000, maybe.

That means $10,000 dollars for installation........

I think I am heading out west!!!

On another note:

I'm betting this is a prevailing wage job, so I really get lost on pricing then..............I figure out costs on my labor rates.......I'm sure yours are going to be 2x almost, so that has to be a large reason on why I think pricing is high.


steve

[Paul]

Yes Steve this is a prevaling wage job, that means we all have to pay $35 per hr for a labor, $38 for a foreman, operators get close to $48, and Truck drivers get $36 (all are with bennies) Remember this includes all maintance on every thing. Which means the guys I have to use to mow the lawns get paid above wages.

Now for the bad news we lost the job by $60K

[Stonehenge]

Ug.

Darn it!

I was really wanting to see you get that one! But that's a pretty big chunk to change - don't know if you'd want to eat $60. Even with fries that's a lot to eat!

[PSUscaper]

Sorry to hear it......would of been nice.

How did you factor the maintenance in????? Do you have some sort of calculation that is thrown into each individual pricing aspect to account for it........i didn't see a 'maintenance' charge in the numbers as a seperate item.

I would hate to be responsible for maintenance at 'prevailing' wage......I can't imagine the cost of this. As I remember your thread on irrigation and 'pros' messing up the sprinkler system, I can only imagine what could happen here.

By the way, where was the irrigation in this thing?????? I would imagine it would be needed.

Also, are you responsible for the bed maintenance as well.....I would HATE to be responsible for maintaining all those perennials........I love perennials, but they are a lot of work to maintain.........I wonder if the client has any idea what they are in for when it comes to maintaining this...............I've seen architects spec. out thousands of perennials before for commercial properties.......then they hire the lowest bidder to do the job.....Bed prep is very poor, and about 3 months after installation, 50k in perennials disappear in a 'sea of weeds'. I remember one project here for a water treatment facility. No maintenance was performed, and a year later, about 2000 perennials disappeared in weeds, and then were removed and replaced with shrubs............what a waste!

I'm still puzzled on the maintenance also. With such a intricate planting, maintenance would be very heavy..........To keep nice, you would need a crew in there quite often......what are the guidelines for maintaining this.....do you just 'mow and go', or are you responsible for such things as pruning, edging, etc???

If I were the client, I don't think I'd want a 'installation' company maintaining my 1/2 million dollar landscape.....I would want a dedicated maintenance firm in there right away.

The prevailing wage thing blows my mind sometimes.....I look at how much money this costs clients compared to non-prevailing wage jobs. Kind of a double edge knife. Its bad in the sense you the contractor have to shell out all that money to your employees, but good in a sense that it 'raises' the bar and sets precedence for how much contractors should make.

steve

[Paul]

Steve, we figure in what maintenance would cost us, plus add in regular profits. I don't think anyone here would send out a crew a week and do it for free. Irrigation was a separate bid. This school was a "Green" project meaning federal $$ where being used and special consideration for natural areas was a big item. We didn't bid the 4 acres of "special wet lands" due to the fact they wanted one person on site for the duration of the project. Yes all planting areas would have to be maintained as in weeded, cultivated.