Grass seed convert...

[Stonehenge]

Since I was a wee kid of 15, sod has always been the be-all, end-all of lawns. Growing up in Metro Detroit, subdivision covenants required sod installation within X months of occupancy. Seed was not even an option.

In fact, working for one company, when we drove by residential projects being seeded, we'd hang our heads out the window and shout stuff about being cheap, 'why not pay for the real thing', and just general laughter and finger pointing.

Moving to Wiconsin I experienced a bit of culture shock, going from an area that was about 98% sod, 2% seed, to 2% sod, 98% seed.

First I thought it was the frugality of the market (truth be told, this market still does not fully embrace the value of a full landscape, but that's another topic altogether). But as the seasons have worn on, I'm finding myself preferring seed (in some situations) over sod. After 2 seasons, if the seeded lawn was cared for per my instructions, and not some derivative of my instructions, they seem to have a fuller lawn that greens up quicker, stays greener longer.

My own lawn is sodded, and I am never really satisfied with it. Seems to take a great deal more effort, 3 years later, than my seeded lawn neighbors.

I'm thinking a good deal of it has to do with the sod itself...grown in a peat bog, the soil that clings to the bottom of the turf is black as night and flakey/dusty when dry. It seems that the roots much prefer to grow in that soil than the clay soils directly below it, resulting in a less durable stand of grass than the grass that started life out hard, growing in that sometimes unforgiving soil.

So I guess I'm becoming a grass seed convert.

Anyone else care to weigh in?

[Lanelle]

Sounds like you are a victim of soil layering--that the original contractor didn't put down topsoil and till it in to the native soil before laying the sod. Low bids are like that with builders.

[Bexter]

Not much seeding goes on around here ... which is why I rarely get involved in any seeding discussions. We did do a commercial site last summer that came up very well. An irrigated medium about 8 blocks long.
We have good quality sod and can’t imagine doing a full landscape and then seeding it … just me …it’s all what you are use to I suppose.

[Stonehenge]

Lanelle - excavation and trucking companies around here make a living from stripping all of the topsoil from a development and piling it up, then shred it and sell it. While it'd be lovely to truck in 6" worth of loamy soil, 'loamy soil' per se doesn't really exist around here, and generally once we're looking at a project, it has already been rough graded to within +/- 2" of final grade, all with clay soils.

To strip out and truck in topsoil for the typical 1/2 acre lot, or approx 700 yards of material out and in, would make seeding or sodding start out with a price tag of $5-6K or more, before we even started talking about the seed or sod. Too much for our average client to bear.

So, the standard here is to bring in about 36 yards (2 tri-axles) of pulverized topsoil. That's standard from the largest company down to the smallest. There are a few here and there that either don't put down any topsoil, and some that'll bring in 8 truckloads. But those deviations are minor and rare.

So, there's really only one layer of soil around these parts...clay. That being said, since the sod would require such a extraordinary effort of soil improvement to match the health and vigor of seed, seems seed would be the way to go.

[Lanelle]

All we have are clay soils here also. The REAL issue is incorporating the topsoil into the native soil rather than just spreading it on top of the clay.
We do both seed and sod here. Climate, time of year and immediate care impact the establishment. I looked at some new yards yesterday and the ones planted during the drought last fall look lots worse than the newer ones planted when rain was more plentiful. Since this is done before the homeowner moves in, care is problematic.

[Stonehenge]

I hear you...We've instituted a policy where we won't seed a yard unless it's May, or mid-August through mid-September. The results we get in later Summer (for seeding) are head and shoulders above any other time of year, all else being equal.

[agla]

Where I am, sod is almost always blends of KY Bluegrass. It does not tolerate shade, is slower to green up, and likes to drink.

The negative with the sod is that it requires a lot of watering earlier on. What seems to happen is that the roots never establish themselves deep because the water is most available near the surface. It also develops an extensive thatch layer rather quickly. With that shallow root zone it is not tolerant to any lack of water.

The benefit is instant lawn, instant covering of soil to prevent erosion, and a blanket to supress weeds. Now you are fighting weeds in a mature crop.

[Stonehenge]

Agla, everything you said is completely true - thatch layer right away, shallow roots, browns out quickly, slow to green, and lulled into complacency after having zero weeds in the first 18-24 months.

And the sod growers here grow 100% Ky Blues.

:doh:

[scl]

I've noticed this to. Here in fertile Illinois we usually have tolerble planting soils. Sod looks great but after 2-3 years my seeding jobs look so much better. I agree with the mulch build-up thing, but I also think it has something to do with the types of seed the growers use. Just a thought. As far as water goes, sod or seed, they both take watering to start out right. I've also noticed with hydroseeding that it starts faster and looks great, but after 3-4 weeks drilled in seed has established and looks better. I compared this on a 1 acre lawn where I had spread topsoil over the entire area and shot the front and drilled the back. Same sun, same soil. This was last fall and I haven't been out this spring yet. This install also had an irrigation system. Great testing ground.

[Stonehenge]

Watering is key. On my residentials I try to push an upsell of a temporary irrigation system (almost nobody has an irrigation system here - maybe 1% do), comprised of about a dozen hoses and sprinklers all spidering out from a single hose connected to multiple ball valves that can be accessed from the front porch and back patio. That way they can water without dragging their 2 hoses all over the yard, stomping through the muddy soil and wrecking the seeding.

The down side of this is that we own about a million hoses and sprinklers so we can keep up with all the seeding projects we have going at any given time.

We set it up, then let them keep the system for 6-8 weeks, then we come and collect it. Though I may phase out our setting it up; you'd be amazed and the number of calls I get to come out and adjust a single sprinkler. Drives me nuts.

[Paul]

Seeding works great as long as you don't have any problems...... say a weak stand of grass goes thru a tough winter, (low temps, no snow cover) , or early freeze out on a late seeding job ( Early October frost that stays), Poor soil conditions ( bad Ph & lack of nutrients) or lack of water. I know most here don't put as much seed in the ground as I do but when your hitting 40 acres of seed a year plus some times seed does give you problems.