Client Wants Mortar!

[Lanelle]

Remember the patio with the semi-circle of steps? The client has decided to go with a concrete base with Mega-Bergerac pavers (those are thick, large tumbled Euro style concrete pavers). So that is how the contract is written. Today I hear that he wants the pavers mortared down to the concrete! I haven't seen this style of paver mortared---can't even imagine that it will look 'right'. Have any of you ever done that and how did it look? Also, I can't imagine why he wants this done. Any thoughts?

[Paul]

#1 He has no idea of high performance glues that are around.
#2 Show him a mock up of the pavers mortared.

[Lanelle]

Paul, Thanks for reminding me about doing a mock-up. And I'm guessing that maybe he has talked to a regular brick mason instead of talking to us about this project.
Are you suggesting that the entire patio be glued? I know that we would glue the steps but was thinking more of a sand setting bed on the concrete. What type of edge restraint do you use when pavers are laid on concrete? I'm still seeing specs on sidewalks for troweled mortar edges.

[Paul]

With new concrete glue the edges and use a 3/8 setting bed. Older concrete that is in a state of disrepair may need more than 3/8 of sand plus some grinding or new concrete work.

[BRL]

Ditto Paul's comments. I've seen his glue the edge pavers then sand in the center recommendations in instructions for doing that from paver manufacturers.

That client probably talked to a masonry company, and got the idea from them. They use concrete & mortar for everything because that's what they do & know best. So every mason company installed paver job I see has concrete for the base or concrete edge restraints, and any steps, etc. have mortared joints.

[Rex Mann]

We use Mega B allot as pool coping and we mortar it together. If done right it looks good.

Concrete over lays we use no sand to set the pavers on as long as it has the proper pitch and no heaving. We have no freeze-thaw here. We use the special glue for the soldier course. We may use some sand if we are overlaying tile.

Peace,

Rex

[agla]

Check the paver patern to see if there is enough room for a mortar joint without throwing the pattern. Unless you are doing a rinning bond, I think that the pavers will be designed to be tight not allowing for a 3/8" joint.

[Stonehenge]

And I always think it looks really odd to go from an area where there are 3/8" mortar joints to an area where the brick are dry laid, butted together. Makes it look like the two areas were done at different times.

[PSUscaper]

This sounds like a job going sour to me.......

Has the client gotten prices for the concrete base yet???

Is the base going to have a footing below frost line???

Is this base going to be built up with mortared blocks????

In other words......if a mason is going to do all this, then why are they going to have you come in and finish it off with mortared pavers?????

I'd imagine they just 'bumped' the price of these steps up by about 3k......at least.

I really hate the idea of doing a concrete base step structure without building/pouring a proper footing.

I'm with everyone else on this one.....if they talked to a mason, then they got a 'mason's' opinion on how to do it........nothing wrong with it, but its a different approach than a 'landscape' mason does things.

What are the steps going to be faced with???? just left finished concrete....or do they want you to mortar block to the structure also. Or are they thinking a different material, like natural stone.

I believe the mega-bergeric could be mortared to look good, but being a landscaper, I would never push for it.

Sounds like a easy way to make a few bucks on sub-contracting it all out if anything.

steve

[Lanelle]

Only the patio is being poured. The steps will be Celtik stone and pavers. I knew this job smelled, but all the way to PA?? I'll spare you the details tonight but I'll share later. We'll get a good laugh out of that tomorrow.

[PSUscaper]

People just puzzle me....

If they want the strength of a masonry step and patio, then why even mess around with celtic wall and concrete pavers. (well I bet there eyes are bigger than their checkbook for onething). I do paver and segmental wall work, but I won't hesitate to admit that a natural stone masonry set of steps will outshine most dry laid paver work.

If they are 'this' worried about it, I'd be thinking they would just want to go all masonry on everything then.......poured footing, mortared natural stone veneered walls and steps, natural stone treads, wet laid tenn. orchard stone, etc. etc......

You can't have the best of both worlds here......Segmental retaining walls and pavers are not masonry.........and masonry is not segmental retaing walls and dry laid pavers...........I think its just silly to mix the two together.

Its funny, but I had almost the exact same set of steps designed for a past client. They wanted to replace a set of wood steps that came off the house out of 2 double sliding doors. Well, first they wanted blue stone treads and a dry laid wall.........I said I didn't feel confident placing that kind of work against a house without a poured/block footing. So they asked about a solid masonry set of steps......

Well, when they got the price, they almost fell over! Doing 2" thick blue stone treads on radius is not cheap (a fortune to have the stone cut/cut the stone yourself)......not to mention a sole masonry radius step structure.

Next they said give them a price on a segmental set of radius steps with blue stone treads......again, they couldn't believe the price.

Finally, they wanted a price on a set of all segmental wall block and paver steps......well, they thought the price was alright, but didn't like the look.......

needless to say, we ended up just doing the dry laid blue stone patio they wanted and left the exis. wood steps.

steve