Help re waterfeature

[Raj Venugopal]

Need some feedback. I did a waterfeature...it's losing approx 2.25" per day...we've run a few tests. Pump is 4500 gph, capacity approx 3500-4000 gallons I believe, but have to recheck. I believe it turns over a bit more than one time per hour...lots of water movement.

There a total of 6 water drops: the biofalls (signature series, aquascape...big weir), three waterfalls off a top reservoir into the pond, one of which has 2 additional water drops. Lots of waterplay, esp. the middle fall from the reservoir to the main pond which is more like a sheer babbling boulder brook than sheet of water.

Water level is static when pump off. Water loss happens only when pump is on. No water coming over the edges or backfill, skimmer plate siliconed and well screwed, as are all the fittings. No pond punctures...I've covered off all the basics. Pond liner is all overlapped.

Question- I've read other posts on this topic in the internet, and some say that ponds with waterfalls can lose a few inches a day. Has anyone else come across this?

I have a autofiller in place, but I want to rule out any other factors instead of depending on a stopgap measure.

[Stonehenge]

Sounds like you've done all the standard diagnostic stuff, and being able to isolate the drop in water level to when the pump is running is a good start.

That being said, I'd double-check (and maybe you already have) along every inch of the edges of the liner along the waterfall - it takes barely a trickle to result in a large amount of water loss. A little fold somewhere in the liner can create a small channel where water could run out.

Also, dig out and around the biofalls, and stick something dry like a paper towel underneath - if it comes back wet, you have your leak. We've also had situations where a stone along the waterfall made a small puncture in the liner. The only way to know is to dig around everything to try to find it.

You mention liner overlap - I'm not a fan of overlapping liner, but sometimes it has to be done. When you overlapped, did you also hit it with seam tape? Water can wick backwards up the overlap.

I don't know the dimensions of the pond, but 2 1/2" each day kinda sounds like a lot, and my experience thus far has been every unnatural drop in water level always turned out to be caused somewhere in the waterfall.

Good luck - fixing these situations can be a nightmare.

[Matt Kulp]

If you have covered all the bases, which it sounds like you have, then it is not out of the question to loose a couple of inches a day due to evaporation and splash. Obviously when you have that much water dropping you are going to loose water. The biggest key to this is explaining to the customer and having them be satisfied with your answer. I have had the exact issue come up a couple of times and it took cooler weather and a lot of reassurance to satisfy the customer.

[moltenfe]

Depending on where you are located 2.5" per day may be accesive for evaporation. We have a lot of experience with the aqua scapes systems. You said you think it only loses water when the pump is running which puts your water loss in the stream or in the plumbing. We have had many of the "bulkhead" fittings leak. So many that now we will fire up the system before burying the fittings just to make sure they don't leak. I would check that first. Next I would look for unusually well grown weeds along the waterfall/stream area those may be a good indication that they are getting excessive watering. The other method for testing the plumbing is to turn off the pump (if you have a check valve) and the biofalls should not empty much. This can also indicate if the lip is leaking as the water will drop just below the lip and then hold. In all we have actually switched pond systems since we just had too many *&&%@^ing probems with this one.

[dan deutekom]

Another thing to look at carefully is splashing out of the feature. You would be surprised by how much water can be lost by a seemingly insignificant splash.

[NCSULandscaper]

i had the same problem on a waterfeature, went over the waterfall several times over a period of a month and everytime i missed the small spot where it was leaking, it took a new eye on the site to find the leak. It was a slight depression and a rock where the water was running over ever so slightly and it was losing about 3" per day, at first i thought evaporation but now, it only drops about 1/4-1/2" per day if its hot and windy.

[natural12]

nothing more frustrating than a leaking pond. In my opinion you have a leak somewhere in the water fall or somewhere around the overlapping liner area. Could be leaking around the edges of the last waterfall where the overlap is and back underneath if there is no down ward slope.
You could run your plumping temporarily at various spots along the waterfall starting at the bottom and working your way up. This might isolate the leak.
The pond we just built has 5500 gallons with one waterfall which drops about a foot. The pump is a 5500gph. The water level drops about 1/4 inch a day.

If you built a lot of ponds and you think you have a leak then you usually do.

Good luck,
Mike

[Raj Venugopal]

The liner is in two pieces.

One is the main pond. The other is the upper reservoir and falls...all one piece. They overlap each other entirely, with geotex underneath. I went around it tonight...every perimeter inch. I've got the water level at least an inch, inch and a half below everywhere, esp around the drop points. Will check everything out again tomorrow though.

Good suggestion re unplugging it and checking drainage in the skimmer box and biofalls. The h/o built a deck overtop the biofalls, but if we have to unscrew a few boards off, so be it. I did put a check valve on it. I can't isolate the pump because of how it's plumbed, unfortunately. There's a fair bit of spash action, but it's contained in the liner field. I'll double check the drop points into the pond though, per natural12
I siliconed all the fittings...

Thanks for all your responses guys. This one's pretty well built, so I'm a bit stumped on this. I found a few wet spots on the mulch, two in particular...one was a minor low spot; the other was constant capillary action which was wicking water out. I can tell there was some water loss because of the different rate of Japanese bloodgrass growth....

[dsamuelson]

Almost always a leak at the edge or around water fall seems like your looking in the right places. Sometimes it is a misplaced stone or rock diverting the water out/over the liner.

[johnkeegan]

Let someone else look for the leak. As someone else said, another set of eyes.

[Turtle]

Not to stray far from the question I have absolutley no experience in ponds but is it possible when building these things to pressure test the pipes before burying them. I used to help a plumber out on the weekends a long time ago and we would repipe a house before we turned the water on we pressure tested the whole system a 100.00 pump and a gauge and plugs

Just curious?

[Raj Venugopal]

Moltenfe, good suggestion.

Guys, here's what I did tonight.

Removed the wooden decking over the biofalls. Turned the pump and autofill off. The skimmer box water level didn't move, but the biofalls water level is dropping at about an inch an hour...will check it again tomorrow. If the checkvalve is working, there might be a leak at the biofalls or skimmer bulkhead fitting. If the checkvalve wasn't working, the skimmer overflow would would be draining (which it isn't).

If the pump was running, the water level would drop faster given the pressure. This might be it...I'll touch base later.

Should

[Raj Venugopal]

BTW, thanks to all you guys for really good suggestions.

[Raj Venugopal]

Anyone have experience with the following and Aquascape?

Looked into the biofalls. The water drained to the top of the bulkhead fittings. the supply pipe is still entirely filled, which means the water is sneaking out through the top of the fitting.

Spoke to someone tonight who's done a similar install...exact same problem.

Anyone else had this issue?

(My solution...loosen and retighten the fitting...then apply marine grade epoxy to the top of the fitting inside and out as extra insurance.)

[NCSULandscaper]

yes, ive had that problem with a few, i removed the fitting and installed liquid butyl rubber onto the provided rubber seal, also use the butyl rubber for the skimmer box seals now also


all the little problems ive had with aquascapes is the main reason why i use Savio now