Trick for Installing Natural Stepping Stones

[ChestnutHillRd]

During site preparation, the client set aside a large number of flakes (large flat-ish pieces of granite). He wants these installed as in stepping stone paths in the less formal parts of the landscape. The flakes vary in weight from about 80 lbs to over 200 lbs. and frequently have a convex bottom face. Thickness varies from 6" to 10".

Given the variation is width and thickness, it looks like I'll have to pull each stone in out out several times to get them level at grade.

I'm not a hardscape person. Can anyone suggest nay tricks to make what appears to be a whole lot of work easier?

[jwholden]

I love the look of stepping stones and think they are a wonderful addition to any landscape. If I were doing that job this is how I would go about it

(1) Lay the stones out exactly where you want them to be while mixing up your sizes. I like to put a nice big one at the start of the path and if there are any Y's. I set the stones 26" ON CENTER so they have an orderly look. 26" is the lenght of an average persons stride though it always feels too short to me.
Some people set stepping stones in stone dust. With taters that size I would skip that part of the process, they're not going anywhere.

(2) Mark around the stone with your shovel and flip it to the side of the path and dig. If you are careful when you flip you can flip it back into the hole and it will still fit.

(3) Flip the stone back in the hole and see how close you are. After the first few your eye will tell you where to be.

(4) Once you are close enough use a prybar with one end designed as a tamper. Raise the stone with the bar or give it a gentle tamp to get it down lower. Once you are happy with where it is set tamp the ground under it with your bar so it won't move.

If I am setting the stone in a planting bed I like to leave them 2-3 inches high so they don't get lost in the mulch.

Finally, don't underestimate how long it takes to set those taters. This isn't HGTV and it's going to take more than a half hour!

Hope that helps.

John

P.S. Take my advice with a grain of salt, I just got trashed in the hardscaping forum for slow work methods.

[Stonehenge]

LOL - you didn't get trashed at all!! Just some other hardscapers that've been down that road before, trying to see if you can learn from their mistakes.

When we're placing stones like that, the convex ones are the biggest pain in the neck, because it's hard to set them in place without having any wobble.

We essentially do the same as JW, but we use a little sand in the excavation to help set the stone. We try to make a dish or rim of sand along the perimeter that will cradle the stone. This will leave a tiny gap between the stone and the earth below in the middle of the stone - this should allow the stones to be placed without any wobble.

[diginahole]

John- I hope you don't really feel like you got trashed it sure wasn't the intent.

I would use the same method as John recommends except I would dig the holes a little deeper and set the rock on some sopping wet sand and set them with sluggo (12 lb hammer) and a hunk of 2x4. The water seems to save lifting out the stones after they are in the first time. When attempting to streamline operations excessive material handling is a good place to look for places to shave time.

[jwholden]

I don't feel trashed at all. I have a sarcastic sense of humor, please don't feel you offended me in any way.

The reason I like this site as opposed to the many others is that I can get advice on how to do it better, not some smart A-- telling me that that I'm doing it wrong with no helpful input.

[BJR]

Why not set them on some mortar for stability?
Or does the ice in winter play a factor?

[dan deutekom]

I do it pretty much the same way as everyone else except I like to set them a little high on some soft soil. Then I take my 260 lbs. :blush: and jump on them once or twice to set them. Works for me.:D

[site]

As above. It is much easier if the hole is oversized a little. It's no fun removing a stone repeatedly to dig out more soil. It also reduces the temptation to whack excessivly high stones into place.

[Tim]

I can't help but wonder if using a pea gravel base would make it easier than using sand to jockey the large chips into place? ;) Tim

[Stonehenge]

I think pea gravel might be harder to work with, and less able to firm up, than sand. Sand is a nice, soft material that's easy on the hands, helps firm the stone up. At least is does for me. ;)

[Lanelle]

I'm not fond of having loose pea gravel creeping up on to the surface of the stones. It can be a slipping hazard and looks messy.

[Tim]

I can see both of your points of why this is not the way to go. I just thought the pea gravel might act more like small roller bearings and make it easier while trying to get the proper placement in the stone's bed. :wha: Tim

[Ax Man]

Roller bearing to allow the stone to continue to move as well. Stone dust or sand for me.

[BRL]

Another cool trick to speed things up is in the edging of the stone. We put an old junk blade on the cut off saw and after we set the stones where we wanted them, we outlined them with the saw. Saved a lot of the shovel effort & went really well & faster than in the past. Tried that once this past spring & will surely do it next time. Ditto the sand comments for this situation.

[Stonehenge]

I think Dan D or Diginahole taught me that trick for sod intalls, too. Funny thing is, we haven't had a single sod install since I learned the trick!!!

[PSUscaper]

Hello,

A lot of great suggestions on how to go about the installation of the stones here.

I would just like to touch on the pricing for work like this. Personally, I have found that you really have to charge a substantial amount of money.

All in all, the amount of time you will spend doing a quality job will take much longer than you can imagine. Therefore, give the client a solid price upfront before starting. Do not be bashful......charge accordingly.

I often find that setting stones like these takes about the same time as doing a paver walk. Before you know it, you are running around for materials.....such as sand....trying to work with garbage stone that the client insists on you using.....and then trying to lay them in very hard/unaccessible areas.

I have found that it may have been more economical to go and just buy all new stones than use leftover rocks, due to the ease of installation.

Another point that I cannot stress is be certain to understand what the client expectations are. Are the clients looking for a 'picture' perfect install? Are they looking for you to literally just throw them down?

This is very critical. I've been down that road where the client says 'could you just place these stones over there for me real quick' and then, when you get done, they are out there complaining about the job you did and you are relaying every single stone again.

Bottom line of work like this is do not think it is easy, cheap work. Really think about what kind of effort and time is involved. Anymore, I almost never do this sort of thing because when I tell them the price, they think I am out of my mind. That's alright though.

steve

[jwholden]

Steve,

I cannot agree with you more. I think office people see this stuff on HGTV and the stones look real easy to move around.

I told a homeowner this Spring that I would use existing rock to put some stepping stones in but when the time came I didn't like the size of the material. I find bigger is always better with stepping stones, to a point.

I said it would cost $200 more if I had to go buy the stone myself. By the time I left the stoneyard after searching for nice material from the pile I had killed one and a half hours and an additional hour of travel time. To top it off, the darn stone used up all of my budget for the material.

I vowed not to make that mistake again. When I showed up and installed the stone the lady kept saying, "Wow, those are some big stones." They were about 80-100 lbs each.

I had a job a couple years ago where the homeowner decided to lay the stone themselves. They went and bought some 2-3" thick veneer and used them to form the path, took my design down a couple notches.

I'm always amazed at how much lower the standards are when the homeowner does it themselves.

[dan deutekom]

Originally posted by jwholden

I'm always amazed at how much lower the standards are when the homeowner does it themselves. [/B]

Now that saying belongs in the great truths in buisness thread;)

[BRL]

"Bottom line of work like this is do not think it is easy, cheap work. Really think about what kind of effort and time is involved. Anymore, I almost never do this sort of thing because when I tell them the price, they think I am out of my mind. That's alright though."

I have also finally figured this one out the hard way, and it doesn't bother me if they say no anymore either. Great post.