rocky, clay mess of a lawn!!

[roccon31]

what would you do to fix this? it is 2 acres of really bad topsoil if you can even call it that! i know what i would do and how im going to bid it, i am just curious if there are some other avenues to be considered. most fellas think i should round-up the whole thing, spread topsoil, and start over. i think i have a better/equally cost effective solution though it may take alot longer in labor. 2 other grading/seeding guys walked away from the challenge so i want to get this right the first time. challenging stuff excites me where most guys run from it.

keep in mind there are 3 swales that need repaired also, and winter will be here before you know it. this yard gets alot of runoff from surrounding areas so retaining existing sod is my top priority. i DO NOT want to have to warranty this job next spring!

please tell me your thoughts!!

[Fine Edge]

If it's all rock like in the first pic then I would say get a dozer and take out the top 6" - 8" and replace with good topsoil.
I'm not sure what you are planning on doing but maybe you might want to do it in phases just to make sure your plan works.
That soil looks awful.

[Stonehenge]

Sometimes, when you hear that other contractors are running away from a project, there's a good reason for it. Just something to keep in mind.

[jwholden]

Looking at that house I would say they can't afford it. It is best to let your client decide what they can and can't afford.

Run up some quick numbers doing it the way that it will work, with the guarantee that you normally give. Then, to cover your butt, meet with them and give them a range to do the project the right way. If they say they are eager to go ahead and do it tell them you will give them a firm quote in the range you discussed if they give you a deposit of __ %.

If they don't give a deposit you know that they are looking for a lower price or this project is not all that important to them. If they ask for a different version of your range, or only a part of the yard get some form of financial commitment from them before you go working up three versions of the estimate.

[Matt Kulp]

Aerate and Top Dress with Compost, drag mat it to level off. Or...areate and topdress with sand compost mix to help with drainage. Installing good top soil would be best, but that could be a budget breaker.

[GLAN]

You could scrape the surface off.......till the under layer adding compost........bring in new soil or replace the scraped off material and tilling adding compost.....In essence double digging.

Or......as Matt mentions........core and topdress with compost.....for the low areas where drainage problem is.....put down a wetting agent to help the soil take in the water.

First get the soil tested by a laboratory.....if you are going to use the existing soil as it is.

[roccon31]

thanks guys,

to tear this lawn out and start over, would cost roughly twice what it would for my plan, because of the recent rise in equipment rental charges (dozers, trucks, etc) not to mention that most of the topsoil in the area is just as bad as this mess and it would be my butt on the line if i got bad soil delivered!

my plan WAS to fix the swales with coarse topsoil (4"-6") and lay down erosion fabric and seed, etc.

for the HUGE nasty patches, i was going to rough them up with my rotadairon and then spread 1.5-2 inches of composted topsoil (25 percent compost) and then seed, straw, fert, etc. for the other areas, where the existing sod is thicker, i was going to topdress very heavily (1 inch or so) drag it in, and the slitseed the entire lawn. i was also going to spread lime over the entire lawn before topdressing.

talked to customer today, gave rough estimate, he gave me the standard deafening silence, follow by an "oh my god" and now we will be meeting next week to see what the most important areas are to him. he wants to spend about 1/3 of my total rough estimate. i will try to give him the best value for his dollar, but he has ALOT of problem areas that need to be addressed in steps. we shall see what happens!

[Stonehenge]

So you know, if this were me (and it isn't), I'd find a way to cancel that follow-up appointment. Either you won't land the business, or worse, you will, and they'll expect you to do larger areas than you planned on doing, all for that same money. Red flags are flyin'.

[familyguy]

give 3 prices.

A - tilling compost into the roughest of areas, core aerate and overseed the whole lawn, then fertilize with starter fert. (ok option)

B - Core-aerate everything 2-3x, till compost into the roughest of areas if needed, and overseed, top-dress the entire lawn with compost, then fertilize w/ starter fert. (good option and the probable sale item)

c- Strip 6-8" of crap and start over with soil that has been tested for nutrient and organic content, hydro-seed, starter fertilize (best option and usually out of everyones budget and pretty over the top)

Obviously you are shooting for B as it will give the results you are looking for. The 3 options strategy has been very valuable for me in selling lawn restoration with conditions that are not ideal for grass. if you educate the customer about what grass likes, they realize what they have is not that (almost always). BUT they also realize that to get the ideal circumstance it is almost always C so they have more realistic expectations. It makes them less likely to hire another guy who is spouting out about option A to get the job.

we have done the B option on 8 lawns this spring, even though spring is not an ideal time to do lawn restorations ( i explained to each and every one of the customers why and told them we would guarantee grass in fall if they waited and not 1 was willing to wait)

in every instance the customer went with the B strategy. Every time they were offered more than 1 option. it helps people to feel like they have more control over what they need to pay to get what they want ( in this case a new lawn) more trust as they understand you are not throwing out a highball number for work that you aren't sure you can do correctly. (Be prepared for the day someone actually wants the C and make sure you can provide it though!)

just my 2 cents

good luck

[GLAN]

So you know, if this were me (and it isn't), I'd find a way to cancel that follow-up appointment. Either you won't land the business, or worse, you will, and they'll expect you to do larger areas than you planned on doing, all for that same money. Red flags are flyin'.


Yes, yes.......but


One never knows what's inside a customers head.

This case......homeowner has a problem lawn........large lawn area, problems spread through out.

As any typical homeowner calling in for estimates......" I want the whole lawn area problems corrected"............they have no clue as to what needs to be done or how much......all they know is, there is a problem and want it corrected.

Contractor comes in......estimates.........cost is in the $ thousands

Homeowner is stunned.........like deer in head lights

Not an unusual reaction.

Homeowner and contractor settle on doing what owner feels is of the most importance at that time.......leaving other areas for a latter time.

This is very common when the scope of the job is large and unrealistic for the homeowner to wrap his/her head around laying out such a large expense.....so they break it down.

Haven't we all gone into a prospective estimate....Homeowner has big dreams, only to realize that their dream has to be down sized......Owner wants a paver patio with seat walls....maybe a drop in BBQ........Gets the estimate and it's some $15, $20 grand........in the big picture, that is what they want........spending that in one shot may not be do-able.........ending result is..........seat wall and drop in are planned for later additions to the patio.

Some times we just might get a call a week or two later.......go ahead with the project as originaly discussed.

Ya never know.

Being open to providing options as it pertains to $ of a project keeps the doors open......we as contractors have to be as flexible as we want the client to be.