pool with waterfall

[Keith N]

I'm researching for my first waterfall into a pool project. How do most build the falls? Do you use a waterfall box/biofalls? Block it up and line it? Any and all help is appreciated.

[Fine Edge]

The pools we have worked around have all used some type of synthetic wall panel that is shot from behind with concrete and all gaps are mortared, sculpted and stained.
Rico Rock has an installer in our area that does a real good job and we had to coordinate with him on our last project to make sure that all sleeves were run for additional lighting, irrigation, drainage for our planting pockets.
He had to pour a decent sized concrete base and all the plumbing was incorporated into the pool filtration system and smart board.
I'll post some pics of the install as it was progressing.

[zullo-design]

We pour a concrete slab as a base then build it up with rock and concrete and RCA. We create pools and spill ways out of concrete then fill them with gravel. The Rocks we use are just too big to use a liner, to much of a hassle, and the concrete allows me to set the rock just how I want it.

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u314/toppgun/DSCN1727.jpg

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u314/toppgun/IMG_2029.jpg

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u314/toppgun/IMG_2046.jpg

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u314/toppgun/P6030241.jpg

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u314/toppgun/P6030248.jpg

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u314/toppgun/P6030250.jpg

a couple of construction pics

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u314/toppgun/IMG_2125.jpg
this one we actually worked with and around a few large boulders that were part of the terrain. you can see better in the second pic

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u314/toppgun/IMG_2129.jpg

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u314/toppgun/IMG_2132.jpg

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u314/toppgun/P2280009.jpg

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u314/toppgun/P2280010.jpg

[Fine Edge]

Keith,
You can see the panels and how they are reinforced with rebar in these pics. It just depends on how big you want your falls and what type of material you plan on using ( natural stone? )

[zullo-design]

a few more construction ones.

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u314/toppgun/new1.jpg

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u314/toppgun/new2.jpg

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u314/toppgun/new3.jpg

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u314/toppgun/new4.jpg

[natural12]

Excellent work Zullo. Just curious, do you use any type of additive or sealer with the concrete?
BTW what part of LI do you work?

Keith, no need for a biofalls. Do it like Zullo. Although I might consider a liner under the concrete. Unless it is waterproofed somehow.

Mike

[zullo-design]

Excellent work Zullo. Just curious, do you use any type of additive or sealer with the concrete?
BTW what part of LI do you work?

Keith, no need for a biofalls. Do it like Zullo. Although I might consider a liner under the concrete. Unless it is waterproofed somehow.

Mike

we use a product called auqafin 2km, its an elastic type sealer, waterproofs the concrete and does a great job of sealing the seam between the stones and the concrete.

and we work nassau and suffolk

[Keith N]

Work looks great Fine edge and Zullo! This project will have a natural stone boulder wall about 2-2.5ft above the coping and the main wier will fall on a seat ledge. They want to be able to sit on the seat ledge and have the sheet waterfall fall on thier shoulders and head.:wacko: The way the builder explained by his past jobs is the walls will be built with square type ledge rock with a waterfall spilling over the top. Actually pretty simple<i'm just new to the building of these type falls.

[emodfd]

Zullo,
I really like the work and the way the boulder blend naturally. I have a question as I am always trying to learn better,different ways of doing things. From the pictures you lay the boulders and rock into the berm or mound. How do you lay the concrete in? How thick? Rebar or mesh and do you lay it on a sand base ? It is not real clear from the photos. Again they look great.
As alway I am looking to learn.
emodfd

[zullo-design]

Zullo,
I really like the work and the way the boulder blend naturally. I have a question as I am always trying to learn better,different ways of doing things. From the pictures you lay the boulders and rock into the berm or mound. How do you lay the concrete in? How thick? Rebar or mesh and do you lay it on a sand base ? It is not real clear from the photos. Again they look great.
As alway I am looking to learn.
emodfd

these pictures show it better.
Like I said we first pour a slab for the waterfall, we make it about how big we think the waterfall will end up being (the actual waterfall not the surrounding boulders)
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u314/toppgun/P1010092_2.jpg

then we set our rocks starting with the ones on the beam of the pool. We piece them in dry then when we are happy we pull them back and lay them in a bed of cement, then we reach over the front make sure there are no spaces or gaps between the beam and the rocks.

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u314/toppgun/P1010096_2.jpg

then we set up our next drop the same way, then we connect the two with a few rocks to form out some of the sides of the pools that are created between the falls.

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u314/toppgun/P1010098_3.jpg
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u314/toppgun/P1010104_3.jpg
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u314/toppgun/P1010106_3.jpg

if we end up going past the slab then we just build it up with rca and then set our rock on concrete as usual. After we are done with one set of falls we go back and spread a soupy mix of cement in the "pools" and make sure we have a nice surface to apply the waterproofer too.

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u314/toppgun/P1010112_3.jpg

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u314/toppgun/P1010115_3.jpg

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u314/toppgun/e1.jpg

A few other things, the slab has rebar and mesh along with 3 holes dug down to virgin soil so they become piers for the slab. the rest of the concrete gets re-wire mesh as well. the waterproofer we use is made by Aquafin, it works great because when it dries it becomes a rubbery liner. We coat all of the concrete that the water will touch and then a few inches onto the boulders to bridge the seam of the cement and rock. Since the stone we use is so dense leaking through the rocks isn't a problem, if the rock has a crack or split in it I may shoot some waterfall foam in there just to be sure. As a final step all the exposed concrete is covered with gravel. Also a cool trick to keep stuff out of the pool is to use insulation board(since it floats) and just cut it to the shape of the pool and a little duct tape holds it in place.

[Keith N]

Very NICE! What is a ballpark price for a feature like this? If you don't mind me asking. I assume you mix your own concrete? In addition to wire do you use fiber mesh in your concrete? One last question. The gravel you use is it embeded in the concrete? Thanks for the pics and help.

[zullo-design]

Very NICE! What is a ballpark price for a feature like this? If you don't mind me asking. I assume you mix your own concrete? In addition to wire do you use fiber mesh in your concrete? One last question. The gravel you use is it embeded in the concrete? Thanks for the pics and help.

anywhere from $7500 up maybe 5-6 for something like the last one that was posted.

yes we mix our own unless the slab is really big then we may use a transit mix for that. and the gravel is added last so its just in there, sometimes if a side is really steep we may embed a few 2-3" size pieces to help the gravel stay up on the edge (sort of like a shelf)

[Spartan Pride]

Zullo thanks for taking the time to post all that. Can't speak for anyone else, but I definitely learned a ton. There's a strong possibility I will be doing a job like that in the spring and I have your "guide" bookmarked and ready for reference.

[Natural]

How do other parts of the country handle aquiring boulders like the ones featured in the waterfall shown?

[zullo-design]

How do other parts of the country handle aquiring boulders like the ones featured in the waterfall shown?

well we have them trucked in from jersey but most of the nurseries/supply yards also have them, depending on the quantity we either pick them up or if we have use for most of the load we call the guy direct and have them drop a whole load at the job site then we just bring the rest back to our yard.

They come from NJ/PA we call them moss rock out here.

[Mau]

Wow. James, that's a beautiful waterfall.

Thanks for posting all those photos of work in progress. Very interesting.

What size pump are you using for that, do you remember? It looks like it is pushing a lot of water. I really like how wide the splash area is. It makes quite a statement.

[zullo-design]

Wow. James, that's a beautiful waterfall.

Thanks for posting all those photos of work in progress. Very interesting.

What size pump are you using for that, do you remember? It looks like it is pushing a lot of water. I really like how wide the splash area is. It makes quite a statement.

Its actually Jason, James is my father. But anyway, the pool company just run another return line with a valve to direct the water either to the jets or to the waterfall line, so then all depend on what pump the pool company uses. I'd Say around 7000gph. On a few of the big ones they installed a separate pump just for the waterfall.

[zullo-design]

Its actually Jason, James is my father. But anyway, the pool company just runs another return line with a valve to direct the water either to the jets or to the waterfall line, so then it all depend on what pump the pool company uses. I'd Say around 7000gph. On a few of the big ones they installed a separate pump just for the waterfall.

[emodfd]

zullo,
as someone else stated thanks for all the input. I have been doing landscape design and install for over 15 years. It is always good to see how others do it. Your methods seem beyond average and I think that is hard to find anymore. I am in Texas and like to see how methods differ from down here. We reallly do not have to worry about extreme cold or heaving etc. Unless it is from our expansive clay soils. Thanks again for the photos and descriptions.
Emodfd

[eastern1]

Who sells the sealer you are referring too. Would home depot have something like that? I am working on a pond -pool project now and would like to finish my concrete with that sealer. Would a typical pond liner set below the rock and cement not be enough? What is the reason for the sealer.

[zullo-design]

Who sells the sealer you are referring too. Would home depot have something like that? I am working on a pond -pool project now and would like to finish my concrete with that sealer. Would a typical pond liner set below the rock and cement not be enough? What is the reason for the sealer.



Its made by a company called aquafin- the product I use is aquafin 2K-M

Home depot does not sell it you have to call up aquafin and find your local distributor.

I have yet to find a way that I like to attach or join a pond liner into a pool. Plus I use large rocks and a liner won't stand up to the abuse. More expensive and labor intensive this way but quality doesn't cost it pays.

[EarthMover]

Zullo, thanks for the pictorial and explanations, they really help a lot. I'm installing a similar boulder waterfall in a few weeks and I'm sure will have some more questions.

I was wondering if you guys consider the need for the pool cover attachments while building the waterfall. Is there a good way to hide these somewhere? I saw a client who actually had the pool cover attached to outside of the boulders and thought this could be averted with better planning. Any thoughts?

[zullo-design]

the company that makes the pool covers drills anchors into the rocks while I find it ugly they easily unscrew in the spring when the cover comes off and then screw back in when the cover is put back on. This is with the loop-loc covers, other covers can just be held down with the water bags.