shirini

[shirini]

I just had paver patio and walkways installed,
they did not clean the pavers before sanding and there is dirt/debris all over,
they compacted the sand one time very fast, many uneven pavers all over
they used poly sand between the joints and after few days I noticed many joints has no sand in between the pavers
there was no edging used any where,
I have called and email them and there was no respond so far...
Please help me, what do I do?

[papercutter]

Have you released the final payment?

[Stonehenge]

Unfortunately I don't have a magic bullet for you. If calling and email don't work, you might try a letter. Than a letter from an attorney. Then go from there.

[Fine Edge]

Did you check their references or see some of their prior work? The "recession" brings about every type of service individual trying to make another buck doing something they "think" they can install.
I feel bad for you but I would take Stonehenge's advice.

[shirini]

unfortunately I have paid them already, the sales person was very convincing and their name appeared every where from T.V. to all kind of commercial and I thought they are good, however, as I experienced most company's have workers whom does not speak English and try to do a fast job and hide the problems, by the way they were the 4th contractors whom did my patio and walkways since a year and half ago.
I tried to be very knowledgeable and check them every minute the last step was done very fast and so far they have not come back to address the problems, I will contact an attorney.
Is it too late to change few pavers that pattern was not followed?
Is it too late to compact and re-sand?
Thanks everyone

[Fine Edge]

You can still change the pavers to fix the pattern. If the poly has hardened, it just takes a bit longer but we've done it before.
In my opinion, if your patio is wavy, I don't think more compaction on the top will help you. I have a feeling the problem is in the base prep.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but did you say that the same patio and walkways have been redone 4 times in the last year and a half by different contractors every time? The same pavers or new ones?

[shirini]

Thanks for reply and answer to my question, finally the contractor contacted me and has meeting with me tomorrow, how ever my question is, can he fix the elevation of some pavers?
can he take some out and fix the following of the pattern?
Is there any possibility to compact and re-sand again?
Thank you all

[Stonehenge]

If you're asking whether something that was built can be taken apart, the answer is yes.

[shirini]

You can still change the pavers to fix the pattern. If the poly has hardened, it just takes a bit longer but we've done it before.
In my opinion, if your patio is wavy, I don't think more compaction on the top will help you. I have a feeling the problem is in the base prep.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but did you say that the same patio and walkways have been redone 4 times in the last year and a half by different contractors every time? The same pavers or new ones?

[shirini]

another question, should I fill up the sand between the pavers where is missing or should I ask the contractor to come back and do it, would it need compacting again?
thank you so much

[papercutter]

Most warranties include a provision that the second ANY work is done on the item by anyone but the original contractor (or someone they approve), it voids the warranty. You're essentially creating a grey area, where it becomes harder to say who caused the issues- the contractor, or you for trying to fix what you see as wrong.

[shirini]

Thanks Dave
I asked the contractor to redo the sanding, however the wavy pavers are all over, is there a way to fix them or they have to be changed? would that give me problem later on? also the slop was suppose to go to my backyard instead is going toward walkway and gate to the front yard, it has been a very difficult 7 weeks and still waiting for them to finish it up, I hired very reputable contractor whom has ad in this website also and completely messed up, hopefully I will not have problem later on.
Thanks so much for helping me

[shirini]

[QUOTE=shirini;62651]Thanks Dave
I did not explain how it took a year and half for my patio and walkways, first contractor tried to install broken stone on my patio I stopped him and find out he is a gardener which my landscap designer at the time had him over my house, he was fired, than I hired another contractor to install stone patio, he had the concrete way up and made me a platform patio, and had to take it out, as I watched him, I also find out the contractor acts like he was on drugs, sure enough he was....had to fire him, by than I was tired of all that and decided just to do concrete and get over with, I hired the contractor whom did my next door neighbor's patio, unfortunately his son whom had no experience did a extremely bad job and charged a lot of money, took me a long time to get most my money back, than I decided to put pavers instead, hired a reputable company, check the work, references and now after almost two months, I end up with wavy patio sloping down to the side of the house, most pavers have no or a little sand between them and still waiting for their workers to come and fix the problems.
Now I am asking would the wavy patio give me problem later on after few rain?
should I ask them to re-do the sanding?
thank you for all your helping a desperate house wife

[shirini]

I just had paver patio and walkways installed,
they did not clean the pavers before sanding and there is dirt/debris all over,
they compacted the sand one time very fast, many uneven pavers all over
they used poly sand between the joints and after few days I noticed many joints has no sand in between the pavers
there was no edging used any where,
I have called and email them and there was no respond so far...
Please help me, what do I do?

[shirini]

unfortunatly I have paid them already and waiting for them to fix the problems, would wavy patio makes problems after few rain?
thanks so much

[Fine Edge]

It sure would be nice to see some pics of this work.

[shirini]

I will take some pictures if it shows the wavy look which is all over, and the missing sand about %80 of the pavers. The contractor send someone over my house and fixed few paver which did not follow the pattern, however he only put sand between few pavers and left, I contacted the contractor regarding this matter and have not heard from him, how long do I have to wait, it is two months now and the job is not finished yet. I can hire someone else to finish the job? do anyone knows any contractor in northern california whom can finish the job?
or I have to just deal with the same contractor and wait as long as he wants me to wait?
Thanks for replying and helping me

[papercutter]

Two months?? Okay, seriously, if it's been dragging out this long and you and your contractor can't reach an agreement, it's time to bring in a third party. Go through your contract; you may be obligated contractually to start with arbitration, but at this point the best assistance you're going to get will be from an attorney.

And don't do anything- including bringing in a second company to finish the job- unless your lawyer says it's ok.

[VoodooChile]

I'd really like to hear the other side of the story on this one. There are like 3 or 4 contractors involved now, right???

[Fine Edge]

It sounds like every contractor in your area doesn't know how to do his job and obviously you didn't screen them well enough.
On the other hand, I'm with Voodoo on this one. I'd like to see the contract or talk to the contractor before I offer any more advice. How many different types of patios are contractors going to keep installing just to find out in the end it's not what you wanted or envisioned?

We're going around in circles here.

[kinnanscaping]

Speaking of hiring workers that don't speak English very well...

[shirini]

we had rain last week, I will take some pictures today, I don't think the wavy pavers will show, however, I would like you to see the sanding which was done again last week with different color sand, now I have some gray, some beige.

[shirini]

I have been through many contractors until I hired this company highly recommend, ad in TV at all times, very impressive sales person I did my research as much as possible having bad experience since Feb. 2008, I did not just jump in and hired someone, many interview and so on
As you all know first they promise the moon and the actual work is another story the work is not done by the owner, manager, or sales representative, it is done by none speaking English person, whom has a little experience of actual work and much experience of hiding the problems, I have studied everything about pavers, from foundation digging to sanding and sealing and watched them at all times and that made them angry and completely messed up, many occasion I had to stop them from further mistakes.
Would any one like their name so they can hear about other side of the story?

[shirini]

I like to explain my situation: at first I wanted stone patio, I hired a landscape designer and left everything to her, she brought her crew and I end up with patio full of cracked and broken stone, and she was no where to be found, as they find out I actually have eyes and can see the stones full of cracks, they had to take the stones out and leave. Than I hired another contractor, I still wanted Connecticut blue stone patio and walkways, mind you first one took the existing concrete out, this one started all over by building the concrete back and had the patio and walkways almost 8 inches higher than my back yard and realized with stone over it, that meant a platform patio at least 10 or more inches higher than my back yard. He agreed to take it out and leave. than I though how bad can it get, only concrete patio any one can do that...right? wrong, another contractor was hired, he used old base rock and could not do a broom finish (apparently was his first job) his father was the one I hired and saw his work prior to hiring. I end up with stained looking patio full of rust...It took almost 6 months and a lot of correspondence until I got most my money back, by than I was aware of many problems, so I decided pavers... many contractors have experience, a lot of people are getting pavers now days, so I started interviewing and screening many many contractors, after two months of checking and checking, I hired the present company, oh boy the none speaking English and none experience workers are very common in Northern California, as a matter of fact that's all you get no matter whom you hire.
I will be happy to give the name of the contractors to anyone whom like to hear the other side of the story...please let me know

[4seasons]

we just want pictures. they say a thousand words.

[AZTLANLC]

Sorry but the non English speaking workers I have are some of the best stone workers I have met, I was also one of them.
I agree show some pics.
I have had many customers always say, can you comeback and fill the joints with sand cause there is none, I go there and all there is, the pavers in the border are not 100% full which is pretty common since the edging doesn't reach all the way to the top, now I have a line in all my contracts explaining this situation.

[Fine Edge]

:yawn::yawn::yawn::yawn::yawn:

At this point, I'm really not sure what you're looking for anymore. Now it seems that you're just constantly blowing off steam.

We all know your situation and I honestly do feel kinda bad for you to go through numerous patios but what are you asking for from this forum? I don't know if there's any different advice that can be given. It's up to you to find the right contractor in your area and make them write every single detail down in their estimate. Have them show you with a grade stake exactly where your patio level will be. Make sure the warranty is spelled out correctly.

I know there has to be competent paver contractors in your area. I'll gladly give you a quote to fly out there and install your patio but it will be quite pricey coming from the East Coast. However, in 17 years, we've only had 2 warranty issues ( hardscapes) so maybe it would be worth it.:superman:

[AZTLANLC]

It clearly sounds like some of those customers we have at one point dealt with, that reads and watches tv then they are experts on doing this, you have to stand back for a minute and try to understand the reason it's being so many people out there and none have being able to meet your expectations.
There's many people that ask for one thing and in their mind have a complete different idea, then when the job begging there it comes the changes, the complaints and so on.
I'm not saying this is the case but not having pictures of the work how can we believe this is as bad as you said it is.
I had a customer one time that said all the pavers were uneven that he could see all the shadows at night, well it was the stone texture he was seeing
One that swore my guys had the pitch towards the house I go there put the level and it wans't he still wasn't happy, he was looking a wall he perfectly build (his words) couple of season ago and our patio didn't looked right, well his wall was way off level we finished the job, poured water on it and then he finally believe it.
and the list goes on and on.

[Terre]

I'm seeing major red flags here.

1. Considering the grammar and phrasing in the posting, I question why you would object to someone who's first language isn't English. I really think someone is jerking our chain.

2. If not, you don't mention what you have been paying for these jobs.
It actually sounds like the contractors you have called out are the ones that so desperate for a job they will take on anything. We all know them. They are the ones advertising that they will remodel the bathroom or kitchen, build a garage, retaining wall, pergola and patio, wash the dog, mow and blow, or trim a tree. And they are experts at all of the above. They give free estimates and are the lowest bidder. If you took the lowest bid, you got what you deserved.