Paver circle

[Rex Mann]

When you guys do a circle kit inlaid within the field how do you do it.

Do you lay the field, then overlay the circle, mark it and remove the circle and the overlay and replace the circle

or

lay the circle bring the field up to the circle and then mark and cut the field.

What do you find to be the advantage or disadvantage to each.

Or is there another way?

always looking for a better way.

Peace,

Rex

[jwholden]

Rex,

I've only done one circle in my life but I'm putting my vote in for putting the circle first and cutting the pavers up to the circle. That way you can be a little off on the diameter of the circle or the exact center point.

[dan deutekom]

I like to lay the circle, bring the field up to the circle, then mark and cut the field. I hate to lay stone twice.

[PSUscaper]

I think this is like the 'egg before the chicken, or the chicken before the egg' proverb.

It seems everyone has a different way, and it seems everyone switches between the two.

For smaller circles, I often lay the field and then pull it back out. Also, for complex patterns, like multiple size randoms, where its hard to get bond lines to meet up again, I pull.

For simple patterns, like running bond and herring bone, you can get continuous lines fairly easily when installing the circle first.

Also, depends on who's installing. If you have a less experienced crew, it may be easier for them to pull pavers out for the circle as they are less likely to mess things up. I've had guys become absolutely mind boggled trying to tie bond lines up at the other end of the circle. By the time I straighten things out, they could of had the pavers pulled, the circle installed, and already been cutting.

Finally, for bigger circles, you really don't have a choice but to lay first because just for time it would take.

At least that's my thoughts. But I'm sure there's a 'couple' differences in opinions.

[jwholden]

Pennscapes,

Feed some of those eggs to your hogs. :)

[PSUscaper]

By the way.

the one time I always pull the brick back up is with those silly octagon with the square attached paver...........If you are just a 'wee' bit off, you end up spending hours adjusting the whole thing to get continuous bond lines. Just no flexibility at all with those. I wish they would just stop making them all together. I cringe when a client requests them.

[scl]

Same as DD. Hate to do it twice. It gets to be a real blast when you start using two different thickness pavers. Laid a OGC half circle in a Brussels walk once. WHEW!

[diginahole]

Circle first except the last row. Then the field is brought as close as possible and can be marked all at once. I hate marking one at a time as much as laying an area twice.

[scl]

Digin,
Why didn't I think of that? This is why this place is so great. Read and learn, read and learn!

[Rex Mann]

Pennscapes,

The shape of that funny looking paver is called a dentated paver.

Peace,

Rex

[Stonehenge]

If the look of the pattern outside of the circle was critical (in other words, you'd notice it if the pattern got goofed because you were laying around the circle), then I'd lay the outside pattern first, then I'd pull it up where the circle was going, and lay that in the way Digin recommends. For the pic below, we laid the entire inner gray area in a running bond. We then pulled up all of the pavers where the large charcoal square was going in the middle, and laid the charcoal pavers in a basket weave at a 45 to the running bonbd pattern. Huge pain in the neck, and my guys were no fans of mine at the end of the day, but I think it was the only way to ensure the bond lines of the gray area stayed true.

[jwholden]

What was your multiplier for a job like that? Ouch!

[Stonehenge]

That was long before the days of multipliers. It was during the days of multiheadaches, I believe.

[Bill Schwab]

WE measure exactly where the cirlce goes and drive a spike in. Then, take a string, and spray can, tie it with a loop to the spike, and spray the line. Then, take one or possibly two bricks from the center out, and lay them as if you are doing the whole circle to gauge where the outer boarder will lie. If the boarder looks close, have at it.

Works very well, and saves tons of time over second guessing where the circle goes.

[HRLand]

For the circle first guys: do you just screed the circle first then screed the rest when the circle is done? Also, how much time do you think a 12' circle adds to a job? I've never done one but had a request yesterday so I could use some quick info.

[Bill Schwab]

HR:

Every foreman does this differently. We have one who does as you described, then another who screeds the entire job, and takes 1' wide sheets of ply wood to walk out to the boarder. Then, we have yet another who finds center, and stacks one brick, course upon course, until the bricks hit the radius needed. This is a way he guages where it will end up. Of those three guys, I have compared times. Then is not an hour variance, and since I believe letting the leader truely lead and not be lead, I let them do it however they want so long as it is right, and takes no more time than other ways.

As far as time goes, the circle itself actually can go quicker than a regular pattern. The cutting around the corcle adds the time. So, what we do is calculate the distance and cuts, add that in. A fairly good wing it way is to figure the area as thoug it was a square. It gets us pretty darn close without rocket science.

[Rex Mann]

Bill,

How can a circle kit go down faster than a pattern?

Peace,

Rex

[Bill Schwab]

Rex:

The guys make a human convair. One guy in the center, other shoveling him brick. He looks like he getts dizzy when spinning all around while laying the stone. If you take the area of a circle, and then take the area oif a regular pattern, the cuircle goes just as fast if not faster. It is all the cutting around it that slows the process. Even with that, unless we have a fish scale pattern or something, the time I have is not that significant, at least for jobs 700-1200 sq ft. When we get over 1200, and there are several circles, and some kind of pattern flows between them, that slows it up significantly.

I think the key is the guys on the crew. There are little idiosyncarcies that they find, those tiny things that bring the whole time down, because they know if they come in under the budgeted hours, they still get paid for the hours in the job. It's fun to watch them.