A Hole in one

[Will Pacala]

I'm thinking of offering this as a service in my company. Putting greens!!! They are easy to use, install and buy. Alos not many companys do it. Check the website out.http://www.allprogreens.com (www.allprogreens.com)

[Stonehenge]

Have you seen any of the greens installed? I'd be interested to know how they are once installed.

[scl]

Looked at doing this for a bid at a new motel. Didn't get the bid but the guy who did really messed it up. Also saw one he did at a residence. Special! Make sure you put some character to it and some varying terrain just as a real green would have.
One company I looked at wanted to do ike a franchise thing. I don't have that kind of market here so I looked at another brand. Can't remember what the name was but if you'd like I can do some digging.
Seems like if you've got the equipment to lay pavers you've got all you need. Good Luck
Scott

[Will Pacala]

Stone and any one else whop cares to know.
first you have to pick an area and size and then grade. Then lay about 2-3 inches of sand or crushed stone. Compact That really well level and rool out the synthetic grass carpet wich comes in pre-determined rolls. Put the holes in and flags and your done. some say to put I think Silica sand in the grass and use a broom to sweep it into the "fake grass". This gives it a little more stability so the ball rolls better. It is really easy and cheap to do, but the good thing is mark-up is high.

[diginahole]

I looked into this a few years back. Easy install for those set up for pavers. I built a small pitch and putt complete with water feature and plantings for a golf demonstration at a Downtown Toronto office tower. Mike Weir (apparently a real golf pro) used it for 3 days and all reports said he was impressed.

I put out a thousand or two flyers.... no bites. The company I was talking with also wanted to sell exclusive rights to an area. I never did another one. I do think that there could be a significant market for these though. I may look into it again when I expand more into water gardens. Similar demographic models I suspect.

[ianc]

A couple of years ago I installed 3 mini-put courses, at that time the only product on the market was a sand filled carpet from Dalton,Georgia and an exclusivity was granted in Canada to Sportexe ( http://www.sportexe.com ) so we had to sub the surface installation to them.

I will explain what I know about the two types:
--------------sand-filled--------------------
You can install on a concrete pad or a granular base, The base prep has to be bang on because the sand–filled carpet hugs the ground like a glove.
There is a knap in the carpet where the fibers lean all one way so if you have to seam the carpet and on berms you have to turn the carpet accordingly and put in any relief cuts to any contours to mold the carpet to the base.
Once the carpet is laid on the base material you dump the silica sand in the middle and brush the sand outwards, the sand fills in better in warm dry days, the carpet will actually stretch and then the relief cuts and seams are done after the sand has been 90% applied, the sand fills the fibers to within 1/8th of the top
Pros/Cons
a) the sand becomes compacted over time and the ball speed increases, there is a stemp meter to grade the ball speed to benchmark against a PGS green. the problem with mini-puts is the ball always goes out of bounds so you need obstructions to keep it in play.In backyard chipping greens the ball takes a hard bounce and rolls off the green
b) takes about 5lbs of sand per sq ft of carpet and can be easily touched up and topped up
c) supports contours – berms and grades better than the non-sand-filled
d) really should be on a concrete base for longevity


--------------non sand-filled--------------------
Every year I go the Mirage Putting Green convention in AZ for a related business, and see the new innovations in non-filled carpet.
Their whole premise is on the fact that their carpet will hold the ball and play out like the real thing, the Stemp meter is their main gage. the carpet can be installed by gluing to a concrete or granular base and have even seen it installed on rigid Styrofoam. I was impressed with the long term use and they hit the dedicated golfer and the person whom wants to improve his golf game so they push “chip to greens” and backyard putting greens with tough pin placements.
From what I have seen I like the Mirage system best, There is also a colored filler (not sand) that can be swept into the fibers to hug the ground better
Pros/Cons
a) not to steep a contour/berm


ian

[diginahole]

The one I did was the sand filled type on a contoured and compacted 6" aggregate base built right on the granite tile sidewalk outside of TD Centre. Let me tell you it was a job to get that carpet up once it was filled with sand.

[Bill Schwab]

check out our website, www.naturescapelandscape.com...the site is in serious need of improvement, but there is a putting green we built on there....

[Stonehenge]

Bill - I edited your post to get the "...the" out of the URL. The link wasn't working with it in there.

I'm assuming the putting green is artificial...How did you get the real turf to blend with the artificial? There seems to be a very clean transition that does not inlcude those 'bullet' edgers (I really don't like the look of those things) I see so often in those projects.

[Bill Schwab]

Jeff:

What you see there is artificial. There is a fine texture turf with green/black silica sand you sweep into the turf, the outer ring is elevated from the Fescue we use here. It is a course variety of artificial turf, with less sand, it simply has more turf above the sand line. There is no transition between the real grass and the fake grass as it is elevated. I'll try and get back there and take more pictures. We also built an outdoor barbecue and hot tub out of the country manor... The turf actually is not much harder than doing a patio, 6" of class 2 road base (CA-6 in the midewest) compacted with the ungelations for the green, then drop the turf down. Finish it with the sand. Cost about $12.00 a square foot, that one was 700 sq ft with the sand trap, and took 3 days.

[Will Pacala]

Not bad. the one on your site looks nice. Thay might be a good thing to add on to the company.

[Stonehenge]

I always like to be a guinea pig for new services... I don't know if there would be much of a market for this in my area, but I know a portion of my yard will become a chipping green, and I'm thinking that installin/maintaining a bentgrass green would be a huge main in my neck that I won't have time for.

[PSUscaper]

Will,

I've done a little bit of work with the one guy around us who installs them.

In case you want to check some out, you can go to a few places. First, there's a driving range called demarest farms right outside of lafayette on rt94 going north.

There, they installed a large putting green, and also, a 18 hole mini-golf course. Perhaps you have been there.

I also had the privilidge of designing a small kids course over at the cardinals baseball field...........over by the 3rd base line.
Again, a example of a small mini-put course (by the way, don't expect much there.......the cooporate sponsors backed out and the plan wasn't carried out 'quite' to the original concept)

For the most part, its a real nich market. You need people with definite 'diposal income'. I don't care what the books say or what the salesman say.........after about 5 years, they begin to look like 'crap'.........the grass fades, begins to rip, the base moves, the seems come apart.....etc. etc. It is not a 'one shot' install. More of a short term novelty.

As others mentioned, the base prep is not hard. Basically, if you have paver installation tools, you have everything you need.

[Will Pacala]

I've been to both demerest and The cardinals ballfield. Demerest has a very nice course that is well maintained. I like how they use light turf, sand , and rough turf all in the same hole gives you a good challenge. I'm thinking of making a putting green in my own yard and that should tell me if it is worth it and should be fun too.

[Bill Schwab]

Alll you really need over the other tools you have is a carpet seam heater and roller. After that you are good to go. Then after you build them, you can go back the next year to refurbish the sand and charge them a fee...Out here, we can get years before replacement is necessary. Back east, with snow and etc, they will not last as long. We never drop below 40, nor ever over 85 here, and that is a positive thing for longevity...

[dan deutekom]

Originally posted by Bill Schwab
We never drop below 40, nor ever over 85 here, and that is a positive thing for longevity...

Your climate sounds like the place I have been looking for. Do you need any employees;)

[Bill Schwab]

Dan:

We are curently booked solid until May 3, 2004. We are running two crews, and will be looking to hire a third leader. We have more employees than we know what to do with anytime we need them, all well trained...We have few leaders who are willing to think outside the box and earn a great living.

[HRLand]

Dan, I was thinking the same exact thing. Except the part about being an employee.

As far as the putting greens go, I installed one in my own yard last year and was not too impressed. I did this with plans to market them but lost all interest after installing it. I mentioned it to a few clients who golf regularly and none showed any interest either.

[Will Pacala]

Huh, I'm supprised that they wouldn't want that. Oh, well. I've seen them around here but not too many.