Order of operations?????

[PSUscaper]

Hello,

I've been working a larger project for the past few months and have a few scheduling dilemnas.

I just looking for some ideas on how all of you would approach the matter.

The situation is this.

The front yard is approximately 1 acre.

We have most of the plant/bed installation complete, and the yard is rough graded.

Currently, the driveway is gravel and we are going to do pavers, area to be approximately 10,000 sq ft.

The entire front yard is to be sodded, and irrigation is to be installed.

My question is how would you schedule the installations.

The yard is close to grade, but not perfect. The drive is close also, but not perfect either.

I would prefer to have the paver drive installed first, as that will set a benchmark elevation for the sod and the irrigation.

The problem is, we want to get the irrigation and lawn in quickly this spring, so do we leave some slack in irrigation heads along the drive so they can be moved later on to run along the drive, or do we wait for the drive to be completed and then grade our lawn.

Just seeing how others would approach the situation.

Do you do drive/irrigation/lawn..........or irrigation/lawn/drive???

I'm a little uncertain what the best way to approach the matter is.
We want to try and do the drive very last as to keep equipment from rolling all over it, but we also want to get done as quick as possible so we can move on to other projects.

steve

[Paul]

It easy....... use your drive/hardscape to set your elevation work from there. Before you finish your drive install any crossover pipes or sleve the drive. then install the pavers, irrigation then the sod.

[PSUscaper]

Thanks paul.


Another quickee.......

When starting a paver drive, do you start at the road and work up, or start at the top and work down.

The drive is uphill from the street to the house.....I always prefer laying pavers from the bottom of a hill and work my way up.

also, as the drive is completed, the homeowner can continually drive farther and farther up the drive each day so they don't have to be completely 'shut' down during the entire operation.

Just seeing how others appoach the matter again. To start at the top, or at the bottom......that's the question????

steve

[Stonehenge]

Boy, that one depends for me - the upside of starting your pavers at the bottom of a slope is you're sur you won't get any downward movement along the slope as you lay - nowhere to go. The downside is - unless you're a wiz at getting bond lines set over a great distance, or your pattern is at a diagonal to the structure you'll marry to at the top, you'll likely end up with slightly imperfect bond lines when you meet the structure.

Starting at the bottom eliminates structural probs - starting at the top eliminates aesthetic probs. IMO, anyway. ;)

As for the logistics of the project, Paul's schedule is what I'd use as well.


BTW, welcome aboard!! :woot:

[PSUscaper]

Bond lines!!!

I'm glad you brouht that one up stonehenge!

I'm not sure what to do about those yet.

The paver were using is Uni-lok brussels.......can only be ran in running bond.

the driveway takes a few curves, and is going to have a a circular drive come off of it near the top, and then open up to a large area for the 4 car garage.

I'm not sure how we are going to approach that one either!

I want to run the bond lines cross wise, but will start losing that when the drive turns. The drive starts off of a cul-de-sak and then turns sharply, then winds up the front left side of the house towards a circlular drive, then comes off the right of the circle to the garage parking area. I may have to 'divide' the drive into sections, maybe 10 ft each, creating a kind of 'panel' look. Same goes for the circular drive......will divide it into a 'pizza' pie type pattern. As for bond lines matching the house.....I think I will divide the drive parking area into its own section, with the drive being 'cut' off from it with a border so I can run a pattern square with the house.

I'm still trying to talk them into another paver, but they seem pretty stuck on the brussels. I don't want to get too 'fancy' either (no fishtails!). I'm thinking a random pattern would be the best overall, or some sort of modified herring bone next. The running bond though is a killer!

steve

[Paul]

There are lots of was to work around this. One is to break up the pattern, look at it as sections using a soilder course to break up the lines. If they have to have a running bond then look at using string lines set every 10', use heavy rebar to lay out your grid. Using rebar 3' long should prevent them from moving. Adding in different pavers possible? A swtich in pavers helps to break up long lines so it doesn't look like a runway. You could set up grids with series 3000 pavers first then fill in with brussles?? Another possibility is to run the bond lines on an angle that you can carry thru the whole drive, that way you'll have no straight cuts at the drive entrance or at the garage.

Me I would like to start at the bottom knowing that unless they where perfect in setting out the house it's going to be off. one help that you have is the driveway entrance is going to slightly curved if you can get your hands on a total station you can use it to give you a straight line off the house and carry that over to the end of the drive. The total station can also be used to keep your lines straight.

[diginahole]

I would try and talk them into Unilocks Stonhenge pavers. They lay much easier than brussels and look better too. They are modular so the random pattern works much easier. Definately have to start at the road here so the pavers can be brought to the laying face with the skid steer.

I'm not familiar with a total station Paul, can you elaborate a little.

[Stonehenge]

I've seen the 'section' approach, and have found it to be an attractive alternative - adds some detail to the project that wouldn't be there otherwise.

A different paver might also be a nice option, like Paul mentions. A 10,000 sqft project won't look hodge-podge if you add the detail of a different paver as a border for the sections, maybe in a double or triple soldier course.

As for Brussels pattern - if I could avoid the random pattern for Brussels, for a project that big, I'd do it. The ratio of length to width on those pavers often has me scratching my head when trying to get a nice fit without trimming a bit off of every 5th or 6th paver. Ends up taking longer to lay.

A nice alternative, with a very similar look and color, would be Stonehenge (not me, the paver :) ) Unilock offers this in the same colors, but each paver size is in multiples of 6". Makes for easy laying, less thinking.

[Stonehenge]

Here's a small sample pic of Stonehenge:

[Stonehenge]

D'oh! Digin, you beat me to the punch on the Stonehenge pavers!!

[diginahole]

I think Brussels will soon go the way of the dinosaur, Stonehenge is a far superior product. With the goofy size ratio of brussels you cant actually lay a random pattern. They have discontinued the 1/4 size and added a 6 x 6 size that doesn't even fit with the reg stones. The only way to lay a random pattern, or at least vaguely random looking is with a modified herringbone using the full and half stones.

[PSUscaper]

I already did a apron on the drive to get the CO last year......a did a triple soldier row on each side.....turned out nice.

I hate the brussels personally........just no options with it.

I'm not sure how I'm going to add a little touch to it yet either. The thought of another type of a paver has crossed my mine. So far, we did the apron and all the rest of the pavers on the job with a 1 to 3 color mix (grey and tan). I may just set the border with the grey and fill in with the tan on the drive to set it off a little. I'm not sure though.

The client is biting his nails a little over the cost of the drive, so I don't want to get Too fancy here. Were working on a budget, so there is little room for getting too crazy on pattern, especially with this much sq. footage. I just want to keep it simple, but add a little flare to it.

[diginahole]

Switching to stonehenge will save a ton on labour, especially if you can get away with straight edges, and material cost is right in line with brussels. Brussells laid anyway but running bond requires all edges be cut. One option would be to repeat the pattern at the road at the garage and switch to stonehenge for the other 9500 sq ft. with a nice contrasting 1/2 brussels double or triple border.

[Stonehenge]

The size ratios on the Brussels are odd, I agree, and they do add time and frustration to every project. But I do like the more random look you can get with them (depending on who's laying them :whistle: ).

But I think that every project I did with brussels last year I swore I was going to switch to Stonehenge. :rrr:

[scl]

Why can you only run Brussel in a running bond? There are 12 patterns alone in the Unilock design book! More if you're creative. I especially like to install the "P" design myself. As for bond lines, drop a string and you can "eyeball" off of that. As for $ difference, Stonehenge runs me $1.30 a foot more here, rather considerable for a driveway project. Also, if you want to quilt, you could use some OGC circles or fans, or Classico if you like smooth, and Paul already said break it up with some series 3000. Only thing I don't like about Brussels is that it can really look busted up or overweathered on an area this large.

[Stonehenge]

I knew those guides were good for something! I took a look at the 'P' pattern - that looks like a modified herringbone pattern - I would bet most clients would not immediately notice the pattern, especially if you alternated where the half piece was laid relative to the full.

I guess I just like making things hard for myself.... :whistle:

[diginahole]

You can lay brussels in many patterns but only straight bond patterns can be laid without cutting the edges.
I guess I haven't looked at the design guide in a while, but the P design is what I think I call the modified herringbone and needs all edges cut if you are laying a square, with running bond or other straight bond patterns the edges are one continuous line, no cuts saves labour. In my market it is only $0.15 more for stonehenge than brussels.

OGC (OVP in canada) is 60 mm ,brussels 70mm, be carefull to choose compatable pavers when quilting or you set yourself up for un-necessary labour.

[PSUscaper]

cutting the edges is not much of a concern as I believe they will have to be cut no matter what pattern use (entire drive is curved)

I looked at the stonehenge today and it looks promising. I may discuss it with the client next week when I have to meet them.

Intially, way back, we were going to use belgard mega-bergerac on the project, but they didn't like any of the colors belgard had to offer. Being the stonehenge is similiar in style, they may be able to be persuaded a bit easier.

steve

[scl]

Good catch on the paver size difference. I have had to match up before. I had a brussels prairie job and wanted the quilted fan. They don't make prairie in Clasico, so I floated in OGC. It wasn't nearly as difficult as I was setting myself up for. ANd the look came out real well.You're right with the P design about cutting, but I don't make many squars anyway. Soldier course takes care f the edge. Its just the waste you get from cutting, not so much the time:)

[Stonehenge]

SCL,

For the OGC - did you tumble it to match the Brussels?

We did that once - looked really nice!

[Stonehenge]

BTW, for those who aren't familiar with Unilock products, OGC = Olde Greenwich Cobble.

[diginahole]

Unilock introduced a brussels circle pack up here last year, is it available in your markets?

:woot:BTW FYI OVP, Olde Village Paver is the canadian version of OGC. :p

[Stonehenge]

Brussels circle pack? No such animal in my market. :(

[scl]

No brusseels circles here. No, didn't even think to tumble em, but the contrast was kind of cool. Attached the image, but its scanned and kind of grainy.

[Stonehenge]

Looks like a very regal entry!!

Nice work! :)

[jshilan]

Hello,

The problem is, we want to get the irrigation and lawn in quickly this spring, so do we leave some slack in irrigation heads along the drive so they can be moved later on to run along the drive, or do we wait for the drive to be completed and then grade our lawn.

Just seeing how others would approach the situation.

Do you do drive/irrigation/lawn..........or irrigation/lawn/drive???

I'm a little uncertain what the best way to approach the matter is.
We want to try and do the drive very last as to keep equipment from rolling all over it, but we also want to get done as quick as possible so we can move on to other projects.

steve

Imagine if the responses to your earlier posts were met with the same disdain as you are presenting to others now? We all start somewhere and we all need help at one time or another. Someone may post a question that seems so obvious to you, but to them it is not. The thing that is so appealing about this site is that it is both supportive and educational in nature, unlike many other sites, landscape or otherwise.

I wish there were things like this when I was starting out so I didn't have to learn everything the hard way (of course, back then computers were the size of houses and there was no such thing as the internet). The great thing is that there is something like this now and I for one really enjoy giving and getting advice.

So explain your position on SF pricing, teach others what you know, and learn what you can.